So the chattering classes of defense “experts” are lining up to defend the cuts to military pensions made in the recently passed NDAA. I get a news compilation via daily email of what we used to call the “Early Bird,” a listing of top defense-related news stories from around the world. In the past week, I have counted three opinion pieces defending the cuts, as well as coverage of Congressman Paul Ryan defending them as “no accident.”
What drives me insane about every one of them is the complete absence of any sense that they understand what military life is like. I mean, it’s one thing to declare yourself a “defense expert” because you and your journalism degree trot around the Pentagon and Congress interviewing people for shallow articles on stuff you know nothing about. I’m not saying a journalist (or a member of Congress for that matter) has to have served in the military themselves to speak about it with credibility. But what they DO need for credibility is to make a serious attempt to understand the sacrifices of the actual people defending the country. These people work in places they call Squadrons, Companies, and aboard ships. Some of them are unlucky and get plucked away to work in Washington, but they know who is really doing the grunt work – the grunts are!
So when these journalists and pundits say we are overcompensated – being paid pensions in the prime of our lives with medical care premiums “wildly outside the norm,” it becomes really evident to me that they never talk to the actual people they write about. They either compare military personnel to federal employees or to the population at large. I worked with federal employees my whole military career. In fact, for a couple years, I was a federal civilian employee. I like them. They contribute a LOT to the defense of the nation. But they are NOT asked to make the same sacrifices military personnel make, not even close.
Here is the main difference between military personnel and everyone else, what General Ronald Fogleman called the “unlimited liability clause.” A military member commits his or herself to their country fully, up to and including their lives if necessary. But wait, you say, policeman and firefighters risk their lives for others every day! Very true. But the difference is that no one will ever send firefighters into a building KNOWING some percentage of them will be killed to get the fire out. Firefighters do get killed or injured in the course of doing a dangerous job, but if a Fire Chief knew 30% of his firefighters would die fighting a big warehouse fire, he would not send them in. I worked with an Air Force pilot who was shot down and captured during the first Gulf War. He flew an F-16CJ in the first attack on the Iraqi air defense system. He was a Captain at the time, probably in his mid-twenties. They expected to lose around 30% of the aircraft on that first sortie – his was one of them. Know what? Every one of those guys got into their aircraft and flew their missions anyway, just like we expected them to. Young troops now say, “I’m just doing my job.” Some job! I think what they mean is that they are doing their “duty,” a word we don’t use much anymore, but one which defines their actions perfectly.
Congress has traditionally recognized this difference, as well as many other hardships inherent in military life for members and their families. When I joined the military, one could retire at 20 years of service (like most civilian police and firefighters) with an expectation of free medical care for life. Pretty nice huh? Nice, but also necessary to recruit and retain a quality all-volunteer force. All of us retirees are very angry with the current Congress, possibly the worst in our history, because they cut our retirement pay. I didn’t put “cut” in quotations in the previous sentence like the pundits do because a pay raise 1% below the rate of inflation is in fact a cut in pay. It is a little ironic that we blame Congress though, when, for the most part, it is Congress that has resisted Department of Defense efforts to cut pay and benefits. Every SECDEF since Cohen has come after our pay and benefits somehow. Our current SECDEF brings young enlisted folks to his office to let them know he cares, and then talks publicly about the need to renege on benefits they were promised. Remember that “free health care” promise? Well, not so much. This is one area where Congress caved in to DoD, and created the TRICARE managed health care system. We used to get free care in military hospitals, but now we have an HMO, which we get the privilege of paying for. Not only that, but DoD constantly complains we don’t pay enough, trying to dramatically raise our premiums every year. Then they fudge budget numbers about how personnel costs are eating too much of the budget, when what we really need to do is spend more money on weapons systems. Don’t get me started on that! If Americans really understood the waste factory that is DoD, they would reintroduce the gallows.
But hang on for a second (ha ha). Suppose all the pundits are right and we should be treated like other federal employees and the populace at large – retroactively. OK then, on behalf of my brothers and sisters in arms, here is some stuff we’d like to be compensated for since we are regular folks now:
1. Overtime! Wahoo! Many specialities in the military are what I call “git er done” jobs. That means you work till the work is done, not 8 to 5. Aircraft maintainers are like that, up before dawn or working all night to get the jets ready for the day’s sorties and fix them when they come back. Even in peacetime, this is a hard job with long hours. I’m thinking many of them work at least 60 hours a week, so that is 20 hours of time and a half they will get now right? Not to mention wartime where you just work all the time! Bonanza! Double time for holidays too right? Right?
2. Equal pay for equal work. Military personnel will now get at least as much as their civil service and civilian counterparts for doing the same job. This will be VERY expensive since civilians make substantially more now than their military counterparts, but hey, we are all equal now.
3. Spouses. Few of them get to establish careers because they move with their military members. Even skilled positions like nursing are always starting at the bottom again. Try moving 18 times in 32 years if you don’t think this is important. We should compensate them for lost wages and lost opportunities.
4. Housing. Certain federal and corporate employees receive a house buy-back benefit when they, infrequently, relocate. Military families don’t get this, so they either buy a house here and there when they can, often losing money when they are ordered (ORDERED) to move, or they are renters, never developing equity in a home. They defend the American dream but must defer participating in it for the duration of their service. So awesome they will now get equal treatment!
5. Kids. We’d like to see their births now if that is OK, plus first steps, first words, first everything, all the way to high school graduations etc., and not on frickin’ Skype or U-Tube. Personally, I would have liked to pick up my then seven-month old daughter and not be afraid she would scream because I was a total stranger to her. I’m not sure how to attach cost value to the incalculable but I’ll sure try now that we all are equal.
6. Our wounded heroes. I don’t think I can express my shock and disgust that they were included in the pay cut, for those medically retired due to combat injury. But hell, since we are all equal now, let’s restore them to full function shall we, since we won’t be expecting anyone to make their sacrifice again? After all, we won’t be doing our duty anymore; we’ll be doing “jobs.”
I’ve got to heartily agree with this post! I was never on military active duty except for basic training and Artillery School, and a couple of weeks each summer and a weekend a month for 11 months a year, but understand a little about not being able to be home for your child’s birth, or birthdays, or other special occasions. You shouldn’t feel alone in being shafted by Congress and it seems everyone else in DC from the top down. I laugh when I hear people complain about having to pay what they consider an exorbitant amount for Obamacare, like $450/month and they’re only making $80k a year. My wife and I pay nearly that per month for our health insurance for this coming year, which may or may not be cancelled next year providing us with obstetrical care, and birth control which are vital concerns for those of us in our 70’s and on about 60% of the income. We also get to pay something over $200/month for Medicare for which the benefits are being cut to pay for “free” benefits for Medicaid and Obamacare subsidies. I’m not complaining, just stating facts. Take an aspirin and go to bed. Thanks!
The politicians, elected and appointed in DC and most states have very little clue about how their actions or failures to act harm their “constituents” about whom they apparently care not at all. They say they do, but that’s like telling someone you feel their pain or know what they’re going through when you have no clue, but want to sound good. Liars and hacks nearly all of them IMHO.
This way of thinking isn’t new. Unless you served in the military people can’t understand it. Congress just proved it again when war dies down!
SOLDIERS AND DOGS KEEP OFF THE GRASS
A couple of my great Pope Air Force Base peeps reminded me of another item for the list. Sometimes they would come to work for a normal shift at Pope, then I’d send them somewhere else, without notice, for months at a time. Imagine what that is like, kiss the family goodbye in the morning, “See you tonight hon…,” then you are gone for three months. After 9/11 I was in an “on-call” wing and I knew we would deploy. I kissed my daughter goodbye every night as if I was leaving, and one night I did. If someone else in America is asked to do that, regularly, please tell me who it is.
Yeah crab fishermen, high power linemen, forrest firefighters, and many other jobs you failed to research and you know what Bateman they dont always get compensation for losses or injuries for life for the job they did. They took the job for the same reasons you probably joined the service, maybe they really wanted to do that OR maybe they just had no direction in life and wasnt very good at anything else. Also i dont know what DOD jobs or employees you talk about or know but sounds more like higher level GS employees or specific areas. Got news for you NOT all employees are in the same situation. You should be more selective when you discuss these topics. There are a lot of veterans that look at somone like you and say “you knew what you were signing up for, the military isnt a brand new concept, you didnt have sign up or re enlist, war is hell.”
I also know of several veterans that take full advantage and even abuse the compensation system, maybe its those ones you should be upset about and making it difficult for the ones that really need it.IMHO
There are also a lot of active duty military that look at this article and feel EXACTLY the way the author does. You are a prime example of what he discusses.
I have several of these remarks and cant bot help but think some of these individuals have no clue. Last time I checked a crab fisherman is in it for profit, lineman isin it for profit. I am coming up on my 20 years of service and have been willing to die for you and thousands of others because it is my duty to country and if I lived I was promised certain things. Now when I joined I signed a contract which I do believe has been around for decades and I raised my right hand in saying an oath. I may be mistaken but there are no oaths for crab fishermen, linesman are there? Oh
yes and you insinuate that every person kbows what the military is about. Well kind sir I believe you are seriously confused and delirious to believe this. I am one of a few thousand or more not exactly sure on the numbers but I joined at the age of 17. Now let me think about this and please correct me if I am wrong. There is no where in this country where a person may buy cigarettes, gamble or watch a rated R movie under the age of 18 and comsume alcohol under the age of 21. But yet a 17 year old may sign a contract placing him into the service of this great country as an indentured servant. Now he ir she can’t drink right until 21, but they have been to boot camp, have had extensive training in their MOS/RATING, oh by the way they are trained in chemical,biological, and radiological warfare. Then off they go leaving families, babies,husbands,wives on a deployment where the odds are they may never come back from. Now what ticks me off to no ends is when some ignorant individual tries to say these people knew what they were getting into. I no for a fact they did not know they would have to fight a fire on the flight dec where multiple people lost their lives, watch a friend lose their legs, have to carry corpses home to their family, and so many more to include bathing yourself with baby wipes, not eating except one meal a day and not sleeping for 72 hours straight because it is your duty to protect hypocrisy,llying politicians, and individuals supporting them. The on hope you have is the good Americans who you are and were willing to put your life down for outnumber the others.
Where is the like button for your statement. One thing that was not mentioned is that civilian, federal, and local government employees can quit their jobs anytime they want. Service Members can end up doing jail time when they just up and walk out on their jobs.
Awesome statement
Sir, thanks for highlighting other dangerous jobs which existed completely within a capitalist society (meaning they can get a job with a competitor if they chose), I’m active duty and I can promise you when fellow airdales and I strap on an AC we are the most lethal individuals this planet has ever seen, do you propose I am free to take my skills to the next highest bidder? If your not, then shut your trap and ask forgiveness for your ignorance from the first soldier, sailor, airman or marine you meet. And if you come back with “it’s the weapon system” BS, smack yourself in the head until you understand.
LMBO…isn’t it called myopia? People in the Air Force, maybe Coast Guard and POGs (people other than grunts) see military life from a 9 to 5 schedule. It’s the Marine grunt or army ranger that sees life at dirt level. Maybe A/F and other non combat MOS are being overcompensated and their shortsightedness is ignorantly leading them into making rash unqualified statements. Maybe the DOD should change the compensation policy to MOS’ that really put their arse on the line like combat arms.
Hey now, dont forget about the Navy Corpsmen who fight along the Marines and fix them up when they get shot or blown up, they are in the suck also.
What real Marine could leave out “Doc” as one Vietnam era corpsman informed me that the Marine Corps battle cry was “Corpsman!” Semper Fi
AG that is the most ignorant opinion there are more MOS/AFSC out there who spend time in the dirt and do a job longer than just 9 to 5 and don’t get me wrong I have high respect for Marines and army rangers I worked along side them for most of my and get this Airforce career and yes there is a higher number of individuals in the airforce that have it easer but that is just by luck and the fact that most not all of the airforce role is support. they signed up and made the same promise to there country and fellow services members no mater what branch it is.
Wow you seem to have the Airforce all figured out don’t you? It seems ignorance has crept it’s way in to your thought process as well. As an active duty enlisted member of the United States Airfoce, let me try and educate you Sir. You say that Airman work a “9 to 5” and for some this may be true, but not all. In the 4 years of my service to the greatest country in the world 2 of those have been in a combat zone. I am not special forces nor am I in any style of an infantry position. I might not be a marine or solider sir, but we as airmen put our lives on the line just as often and willing I might ad. Think before you type next time. You know what the greatest thing about responding to an inaccurate response is? I, as well as the thousands of other United States Military members,fight for your freedom so that traditionally less intelligent individuals such as yourself have the freedom to speak his or her mind. I bid you a great day of freedom.
Couldn’t help noticing that you didn’t mention any of those dangerous non 9 to 5 jobs in the AF…. I know air force didn’t earn the title Cheer Force honestly. However, Mr. Teacher the ignorance may be your burden to bear in that you selectively omitted those instances of putting your life on the line. I’m assuming those dangerous non 9 to 5 jobs you are speaking about are AF cargo aircraft crashes caused by pilot or maintenance errors. And yes airman I earned that freedom for you while you were still going to bed by 9 pm. Semper Fi! boot!
AG, your stereotypes about the Air Force and Coast Guard are misguided and downright disrespectfull. I’ve served 16 years in the Air Force as a C-130 pilot. I’ve deployed 7 times to Iraq and Afghanistan, travelled the world to places I can’t even pronounce or pick out on a map and have missed 3 of my 4 children’s first steps, first words and countless other firsts. The only reason why I’ve caught my fourth’s special events is because I’m getting a “break” now that I’m working in a “9-5” staff job. For your information, close of business ends when the work gets done… and that’s routinely 12+ hours a day, plus the occasional weekends. Most times I’m lucky to catch the wife and kids while their still awake before they go to bed. That said, I long for the days where I slept in tents with my crew and lived with the grunts I supported on a daily basis. We rarely left the threat envelope and had to fly low and slow and got shot at one an almost daily basis all the while doing our best to keep our Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines off the IED-laden roads of Iraq and Afghanistan. There was nothing glamourous about the job. Nothing cushy. It was dirty, sweaty, loud, physical work but it mattered. I take particular offense to your comment and on behalf of my “chair-force” brothers and sisters, I am proud of my service and would do it all over again and am prepared to give my life in defense of this great nation, even for ignorant dumbasses like yourself.
Yea, I know it sound tough…Working around an aircraft maintenance schedule waiting for parts; in your case waiting for the maintenance tech to fix your aircraft; Sleeping in tents, loud jet noises; eating hot chow most of the time and having the opportunity to take a shower within a week or two. I realize that the AF’s version of grunt work isn’t the same as Marine grunt work but that doesn’t change those facts. Missing certain family events…and so on and so on are tough…been there done that…You know what is funny Av8r is the fake outrage and the name calling. The great thing about being a Marine is that I’ve had the opportunity to experience living in the dirt as a grunt and later in my career in aviation meeting the flight schedule. My stereotyping of the AF and Coast Guard comes from direct observation (during my deployments) and from coasties and airmen bragging about their 9 to 5 type job. If the AF is like grunt work maybe you should have a talk with your airmen buddies and get them straight…because a grunt like me looking in will believe their bragging and not your rants. I did learn something new…I always thought it was Cheer Force and not Chair Force 🙂 .
Oh, I’m sorry, people that aren’t grunts only have a 9 to 5 schedule? What do grunts do when not deployed? Oh nothing? go home at two? Ok, because we deploy too, we have jobs too. I’ve been there several times, and had way too many friends, a lot of which were a/f contracts, die while outside the wire. You are just as bad as the civilians bitching about military pay
Fuck You, you entitled piece of shit.
You volunteered for what you do, and you swore an oath to protect peoples’ right to free speech, how dare you use your position as a public servant to demand that people kowtow to you just because you “volunteered” and do a “dangerous job”. (And if you really think flying a Jet around 10,000 feet above some Bronze-age tribesmen with light machine guns is dangerous, try walking around the Sunni triangle with a Flak-vest and an M9, or sleeping under the stars on the side of a mountain in the Kunar Province, shut your goddamned trap.)
You’re not Jesus Christ that people should beg forgiveness from you for not sharing your point of view, and the fact that you’re so ‘dangerous’ and ‘lethal’ is not a reason to bow down and kiss your feet.
A lot more civilians have sacrificed and died for freedom, liberty and the American way of life in the last 200 years than All-vol service members ever have, and with no reward for themselves or their families when they were killed.
Hey there Army, put on your boots and follow me! Have some professionalism and decorum there when you speak. And why are you walking around the Sunni Tri with an M9, poor weapon choice if you ask me. Tell the Marines Fallujah needs cleaned out again! Definitely can’t send in the Army Blackhearts. Where are all these civilians that died for the American way of life, I know a couple fell into the Hoover Dam, but Damn! We all mostly volunteered for the intangible reasons (you know patriotism, valor, sense of duty, accomplishment), then we realized that patriotism doesn’t pay the rent or buy food (I’m sick of MRE’s, aren’t you?) There is a solemn contract (no actually, look it it up, it’s somewhere beside your DDForm4 and your service contract, along with all the recruiting manuals the recruiter hid from you) that we will get a defined benefit (aka retirement paycheck) pension when we do 20 bones in the sticks. There is a reason for that killer. We need solid people in the core jobs and we also need solid people to teach the younger ones. Someone didn’t teach you very well, I can tell just by your articulate nature. Oh by the way, one of our Female Captains just beat out your entire Sapper course and now has the point record. Man, you guys need to buck up and come on in for the BIG WIN. Nuts!
You’re the type of piece of of shit officer that couldn’t lead a fire team. Just because you you have a degree doesn’t are you qualified for shit when it comes to . You are probably some generals bitch who has never left CONUS and a fucking POG. I’m going to assume that you are the type of “leader” who shows up last and leaves first. You You should do the Army a favor and get the fuck out and pursue suicide. You’re sir are a piece of shit and exactly what’s wrong with the Army. You know nothing of selfless service.
And to those of you comparing these other jobs to getting shot at and getting blown up, you are sorely mistaken. I have worked with linemen before and they are the laziest people I know. Firefighters are the only ones who deserve any compensation.
ArmyCPT GO FUCK YOURSELF
You’re comparing being shot at to being a crab fisherman or lineman? Are you an idiot?
See author’s point #2. Equal pay for equal work. A civilian makes far more than a service counterpart. Crab fishermen? Ask the Coasties in Alaska how their pay compares. Linemen? See how that stacks up to their Navy equivalents. Stack a Merchant Marine Third Mate’s pay up against their Navy counterparts. Stack Blackwater/Triple Canopy salaries against being an infantry grunt or SOCOM guy.
You’re a freaking idiot.
YOU FOLKS NEED TO STOP BUCHERING EACH OTHERS SERVICES AND FIGHT TOGEATHER. WE WILL ALL BENEFIT MORE WHEN WE ALL FIGHT USING ALL SERVICES………. “STICK TOGEATHER AND WE WIN”
what some of you are forgetting are that we are a band of brothers . i was a marine and i joke with my legion pals oh your in the navy thanks for the lift or airforce thanks for throwing me out of a perfectly good airplane. but it is all just a joke because we all helped each otherand why to give these other apparently clueless individuals the freedom to run their gators about that which they are clueless. now i know i am gonna piss people off with this but hey it is also my right that i fought to defend. so you remember this as you read this and spew this garbage . i fought for your right to do it so spew away
Check your grammar, you sound like an idiot. It’s ignorant people like yourself out there, voting for people when you don’t even know what they stand for that got us in this situation in the first place. Now those other jobs do risk their lives and they get the respect they deserve. They do in fact all get compensation, learn the facts. Did I really join because I “wasn’t good at anything else”? No, not at all. I joined because I have pride, honor, and that one thing most politicians and people like yourself do not have, courage. Now let’s say most active duty personnel decide to not reenlist. That would bring back the draft. I’m sure you are also against the draft right? Of course you are. You have the right to express your pathetic opinions though, do you know why? There’s this little piece of paper floating around that our military men and women risk their lives for. I’m sure you’re thinking money, like I said, you are pathetic. Do they really want to take benefits from those medically retired? And you support that? Why don’t you go protest a military funeral, since we fight for your right to do that as well.
JD, sorry. You’re wrong. Just wrong.
JD your comment was so stupid on so many levels it was difficult to simply read it. (How that is possible in this day and age of auto-correct I have no idea.)
You are right in one aspect… We knew we were signing up for deployments, dangerous work and many other things. Some of us knew and many if us were surprised to find out we had also signed up for joining a very tight-knit family. However, we all THOUGHT we were signing up for a certain set of benefits, a “golden ring” if you will, that was promised, on paper, when we joined. Who knew that the contract could be rewritten after we had executed our end of the deal for more than twenty years? As for those professions you mentioned… Sure they are dangerous, under appreciated and needed; however, they can walk away any time with no repercussions. Try that in the military and you end up in jail. At a minimum you get a bad conduct discharge that follows you for the rest of your life.
JD is a complete moron. No concept of what sacrifice is. So sad there are so many in this country that feel like him/her.
What’s more sad is so many people who sacrifice miss that certain Army Value of “Selfless Service” and don’t think the Selfless part actually applies to them.
You’re a bad person and probably a terrible leader if you are actually in the Army.
The difrence is compensation. I now do one of these professions you mentioned. I make in a month and a half what I made in year deployed the USMC as a SSgt! People that decide to stay know what they are in for. No argument there. The issue is they agree to what they are going to get at the end of the rainbow. When it’s not there, that’s the issue. Stop being a prick, and talk like your some big guy, your hiding behind your keyboard. I don’t think you know what your talking about.
“They took the job for the same reasons you probably joined the service, maybe they really wanted to do that OR maybe they just had no direction in life and wasnt very good at anything else.” WOW really? I am a Proud USAF Vet and I had an opportunity to go to College as well as other opportunities, however I JOINED TO SERVE MY COUNTRY!!! I also have a family military lineage. So instead of making such a naive blanket statement, maybe YOU should research the reasons as to why people join. Furthermore, unless YOU have served in the military then you really have no idea what you’re talking about.
LMBO…isn’t it called myopia? People in the Air Force, maybe Coast Guard and POGs (people other than grunts) see military life from a 9 to 5 schedule. It’s the Marine grunt or army ranger that sees life at dirt level. Maybe A/F and other non combat MOS are being overcompensated and their shortsightedness is ignorantly leading them into making rash unqualified statements. Maybe the DOD should change the compensation policy to MOS’ that really put their arse on the line like combat arms.
AG, this comment is fairly ignorant too. Maybe you could do a little research into some of the ground combat actions the AF has been a part of for the last 12 years. Today is a good day for this, as it is the anniversary of USAF EOD Team Lima being killed by a VBIED near Mahmudiyah, Iraq. Perhaps you should take your myopia to Google and do a little bit of research.
My husband is an Air Force maintainer. He is an E-8 now. I’m highly offended by your comment that Air Force works 9 to 5. What a joke, I wish!!! My husband has missed so many birthdays and anniversaries, I lost count!!! He also leaves for work at 5:30am and comes home usually around 7:00pm. This is also one of the first times in his career that he’s not working swings or mid shift. Know what you’re talking about before you type…PLEASE.
Well I wouldove to say that we definitely are a well oiled fighting machine. ArmyCPT I would love to feed you a mouth full of fist being gan medically retired 18D all of your comments I read are stupid and down right ignorant. I however do believe that we do all have our roles and duties. I hope you guys will understand this the grunts, medics, forward observers, AF jtacs, and so many more if this suites you then no need for hatred cause you know. But these jobs are more dangerous and mentally draining than any job there is out there. I served in 6 deployments throughout the middle east and when we got boots back in the US it was 1 month to party then back to training with months in the field off to ft Irwin california for desert warfare training and before you know it giving those wives and babies kisses to go back overseas. Yes we did sign up for that but now that I am medically retired from (two bullets one hit my spine and about rendered me handicap). now that I am out I see why I could not see while I was in we moved so fast worked so long and moved so much I did not have time to recognize the death. You know I sat down one day and realized by the time I was 19 I had seen more death than 99% of the world. You should also know that by the time I realized that I was 30. So being in those jobs is not so much about your 9-5 or flying low in combat. I think the grunts that have spoke out here speak more about how do you see death from 500ft flying at 500 miles an hour. How do you see death sitting in your office on base. I will leave this as a thought as an E-6 I was demoted as I was on my way out and I lost it speaking to a battalion commander in an infantry batt he said that it hurt his heart and feelings that his unit had lost 6 men but his unit needed to continue on mission but he could not send out any helo’s for his wounded. Well my team went in on our own accord and took them out so it would not be a burden on the unit. We walked all night to get the dead back to the base and the commander acted as if it was nothing he did not want to see them and asked us why we went and brought them back. I told him it is easy to talk about death but it takes a real man to understand death and see it. For this I lost rank for disrespecing a commissioned officer, he also was a grunt and had never seen death so not all grunts see death but when you do and have time to slow down and take it all in I wish I would have chosen a different career cause these are things I didn’t sign up for. No one signs up for the things that you have to carry with you for the rest of your life. So guys pls fight united but if you have ignorance to announce keep it to yourself.
J.D. Your thoughts and words are of a coward. Even though yes they know what they are signing up for they are giving you the right to live in a free country. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for your thoughts and ridiculously spoken words. I’m proud to be an American and proud of our troops. I’m not proud of our government for those things that are going on to our troops but what can one persons words do. Thank you Bateman for your thoughts and words and more importantly thank you for your service’s
The crab fisherman can tell his boss to suck it. The high power lineman can say “You know what, not today.” Even the forest firefighters can walk away, but thank goodness for men and women like that who also put their lives at risk willingly.
You use the comment from a hypothetical crusty old military vet saying “You knew what you were signing up for.”
You’re damn right I did, AND SO DID THE DoD based on every yearly report telling me about other forms of compensation I receive (like housing, food, etc), every feedback session reminding me of the benefits of staying in, every reenlistment briefing covering what I should expect in order to help me make the decision that’s right for me, the agreement I signed to reject a 15-year retirement with a lump sum payment and reduced monthly pay – an agreement which explained the 20 year retirement and how those benefits are calculated… the DoD knows EXACTLY what I signed up for. And now they’ve altered the deal.
But I can’t tell my bosses to suck it. I can’t walk into their offices and put up a fight about changing benefits or cuts to pay. I can’t stay home tomorrow or tell them “not this time.”
Nope. I will salute smartly and continue serving. Not like the crab fisherman who begrudgingly goes to do his job because hey, you have to make a living. No, if I fail to execute my duties, it is a criminal violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and I will likely be headed to jail.
Tell me again how that’s the same thing.
JD, the thing about the jobs you mentioned is the fact that anyone doing those jobs can quit at anytime and go home with out any jail time.
As far as people that complain about service members compensation and veterans benefits, i am just guessing that those are the people that never had the guts to serve this country and just decided to drink, party and do drugs after high school.
Instead of them complaining how about they just tell any veteran and service member, thank you sir or ma’am for taking my place so that i could bull shit around for ten years until i became an adult mentally.
Yes i was too scared to do what you did and i have no concept of the sacrifices you have made.
But again thank you and since i never served i was able to father ten children from ten different women and pay nothing to any of them or i was able to have five children and not know who the fathers are to any of them.
So thank you for giving me the chance to waste away all my opportunities and and land a minimum wage job, while you sir or ma’am served this country with dignity and respect and now have more benefits than i.
I really don’t understand why people don’t get it. It’s not a difficult concept. You get back what you put in. If you don’t do shit with your life in the beginning then you are going to have a shitty life later on. Don’t blame others for your failures.
Knucklehead JD. I am a veteran and now separated and work for one of the largest utility companies in the world, one thing you dont realize is that electrical lineman are represented by the union IBEW. If it starts to rain they dont have to work, if they feel unsafe they dont have to work, if they are called in they dont have to respond. They respond and do the work when they want the extra money. Keep in mind these guys make over $200k a year, don’t try to compare their sacrafices with any military member. Crab fisherman, and lineman make a killing doing what they do and they ALL do it for the money. Otherwise they have the freedom to do something else they are not obligated by law to fulfill their duty like military members are.
BRAVO!!!!
Listen up halfwit. All those jobs you listed… That’s cute. They don’t get shot at. It’s dangerous.. All our jobs are dangerous… We aren’t asking for MORE benefits. We signed a contract, and currently, they are rewriting it without our consent. We are asking that our benefits just aren’t touched. I think the benefits package that existed when I signed up to die for my country if I had to (and have come close to on at least 3 occasions) is perfectly adequate, but rewriting the contract in most situations is considered a “breach of contract” and is an offense most would be totally legal to sue over.
Next, don’t even think about criticizing this author for lack of research…. Specifically in the GS dept. every single one of them gets paid more than their equivalent GI. And guess what… You can’t ask them to take out the trash, mop a floor, pull security detail, or manage one of the 9gazillion bullshit extra duties that the rest of us do on top of our “normal” job. As the author stated, you can’t work them overtime, and you sure as shit can’t deploy [most] of them. Now, if you have somehow managed to open your idiot hole not realizing the difference between a GS position and a contractor… You can say that you are sorry now… But then I would suggest you write your congressman… Because that’s a whole different can of crap.
Next, the author already called the DOD a waste factory. If you want to hold somebody accountable for the abuse of the system… Look at congress.. They make the rules. I’m tired of everybody picking on the folks that don’t have choices in the matter. Go after the people ACTUALLY responsible for the blatant waste of your tax dollars. Learn to vote appropriately. Don’t hate the soldier/marine/sailor/airman for some bullshit an asshole politician is responsible for.
Finally,…… …….. While they keep inflating the budget for equipment and deflating the budget for personnel… Who the crap do you think is gonna be running all our fancy new toys in 5 years? We are going to have the shiniest prettiest most technologically advanced fleet of all sorts of planes and tanks and trucks….. That don’t frigging move. When that day comes… You…. Better hope nobody wants to pick on the little ol US of A… OR… You have A keen ability to learn a foreign language… How’s Chinese sound?
Well JD – I guess you took the opportunity to open mouth and insert foot. I won’t bore you with more “back handing” because frankly – I agree with each and every one of the replies you’ve already received. And …. smacking you again will only highlight my inability to think and behave reasonably and logically. An attribute I learned in my 20 year military career.
May I suggest JD, that you re-visit those ridiculous insulting notions you have so much passion about and maybe re-post some modifications. Take you time JD. Because the rest of us? We have it right.
Really JD? Crab fisherman- 6 weeks of work=50 to 100K, E-3 military guy= 23K per YEAR, PLUS he gets to put his life on the line EVERYDAY!!! fisher guy, not so much… ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON!! Kiss my retired military butt.
Yes, we knew what we were signing up for….DUH! And this isnt what we signed up for!!! We only want to KEEP the retirement benefits we SIGNED UP FOR and were promised. We structured our lives post-military on promises made concerning benefits that we EARNED. Govt. needs to make cuts elsewhere. Frankly, there are too many superfluous expenditures to single out examples but those benefits EARNED and PROMISED should be maintained before ‘pet’ projects, unearned social programs, congressional retirement benefits, etc.
To those people who say “you knew what you were signing up for” as some sort of defense of this unscrupulous behavior, you have entirely missed the point. The point being that, yes, I knew what I was signing up for 20+ years ago and everytime I reenlisted. Now, after 21 years of my blood sweat, and tears someone wants to go back and change all those I promises I counted on. Would you go knowingly go work for a company that was going to keep you for the best years of your life, and then try to change everything after you had faithfully seved them? I can’t honestly say that I would answer yes. As much as I loved the challenge and sense of accomplishment I got from serving, my sense of duty would have never overruled my common sense in that respect.
JD, I am sure you have had a chance to serve in one of the Armed Forces. Maybe you did for a short tour, or maybe you decided not to serve at all. You have to have served to undestand what the author is saying. Of all the people to punish for Pentagon or politician’s budget funds, the Congress and the Civilian Heads at the Pentagon chose to cut the retired pay of service members who have retired. Why could not they cut the funds to Welfare or Food Stamps recipients? There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution about feeding the poor, sick, lame, and lazy or giving them welfare. In the early days of our Republic, ordinary people had to scratch to make a living, or maybe some relatives or a church would help to see them through hard times. However, the Constitution charges the Congress with maintaining and paying for an Army and Navy (Defense). When a qualifying service member retires, his retired pay is an EARNED benefit. He doesn’t get military retired pay for just having a heartbeat like so many lazy welfare, disability, and food stamp cheats. Retired military members are not part of some fraudulent con job. They have earned their pay! Unfortunately, we do not have very many members of Congress or high Pentagon officials who have ever served in the Armed Forces to have an true understanding of what military/naval life is all about. If the Pentagon needs to reduce someplace to make end meet for a couple of years, let them delay or cut out some weapon system development. But, don’t steal from the people who have earned it — and especially those guys and gals who have lost one or more limbs due to IED’s and battle injuries. That is really criminal, and any member of Congress who proposes that is not interested in rewarding service to the Nation is only looking after his vested political interests. If any civilian is jealous or envious about military retired pay, the rather than complaining, they should have volunteered to serve themselves. As the Germans say, “Undank ist die Welts Lohn” (Ingratutude is the world’s reward).
JD, welcome to now being an uninformed idiot. Every…and I mean every other profession has the ability to quit at any time and walk away. Usually this happens when the boss pisses you off or you find a job that pays better somewhere else or you’re just tired of the bullshit.
I’m from Maine and have quite a few friends who have worked in the fishing industry and bring home between $5k-$10k a month. Yes, the conditions are hard, but the compensation is very good. This level of compensation equals the top pays in the military. In fact, there is a cap on pay that was just below $9k a month for the top officers. Generals, Admirals, Colonels, and Captains who are in charge of hundreds and thousands of people, and multi-billion dollars worth of equipment capped at $100k a year. These same officers sign a contract in which they NEVER truly retire–if their government wants them at anytime, they go until the day they die…period. Do you have the same contract with your fishing boat? Not hardly. Even enlisted people don’t retire at 20 years–they’re on retainer, which means if my phone rings, I go. If I choose not to go, I go to jail. How about you? Ever have a job like that? No, don’t think so. Even if someone decides they don’t want to re-enlist after their first four years, they get to be held accountable for another four years for posterity. You see each contract gives a minimum eight year commitment in which you can be called and you MUST go or face jail. Let me know when that happens with your fishing boat or your lineman or any other profession you “researched.”
In the military, walking away leads to brig time, demotions, extra duty (meaning extra work hours), restriction (think of it as being grounded with threat of jail time if you don’t comply). Plus, you’re told how to dress, how to wear your hair, how to shave, and if you don’t comply, you don’t get fired, you visit the previous list of restriction, extra duty, demotions, and brig time depending on how much you want to display your “rights.” In case you want to say that some people have been deserters–and there have been–don’t forget the federal warrant for arrest that goes with it.
So the next time you’re researching professions, you need to realize there isn’t one, NOT ONE, that compares. When you have this stupid thought again, go bash your forehead against a wall until it leaves.
Crab fishermen, high power linemen, forest fire-fighters, and many other jobs have some other things in common:
1. They can quit!
2. They sustain substantially lower, pretty much nonexistent, rates of incoming gunfire.
The appeal being made isn’t, “I didn’t know what I was in for.” The appeal is this:
The US Government and American People, because we’re complicit in this, gives pay commensurate with the level of work being performed, better hours, better health benefits, and pretty much better everything to civilian employees who never sign up to put themselves in harm’s way.
You think the military is a good deal, try being an E2 who gets shot, ends up surviving his surgery and rehabilitation, and who at the age of 18-19 gets discharged and put on disability for the rest of his life. I hear the whine of, “Yeah but they get free healthcare for life,” yeah well that healthcare sucks! The VA hospitals are horribly understaffed and the care that is delivered is sub-par and yet veterans are regularly forced into these institutions because they have free, with a catch, healthcare.
Put your money where your mouth is, go overseas, under orders kill some people you’ve never met before and who you might actually like if you could be friends, watch your friends die, and then come back to a country that acts like we’re not at war and which expects veterans to seamlessly reintegrate with society, and hey that was just a car not a gun shot, while some elements of society sling around statements which are a dolled up version of, “Sacrifice, please, I had to be up at 6am this morning.”
The next time you’re out and you see someone in uniform why don’t you just walk up to them, call them a murderer, and spit on them?
For the record I am not a Marine, though I have a fierce admiration for the Corp, nor am I an airman, solider, or sailor. I decided that I couldn’t do what they do; I could neither kill nor contribute to the killing of others, even people who are supposed to be my enemy. That said, to all service members who might stumble across this little rant, Semper Fidelis!
With inexpressible thanks,
A grateful civilian
Crab Fisherman ‘s boss… “go fish no-notice for 3 months”
Crab Fisherman… “no I quit”
end of story, find another boat to work.
POTUS “… go to war”
Sgt Smith “no I quit”
off to jail… reduction in pay and less than honorable discharge, good luck finding a job with that on your record.
no they are not equal in any way shape or form…
Here is the big difference- you can choose to not be a fisherman, etc. You can not choose to quit your service job. Even when your contract is up- it isn’t up. We were extended beyond my husbands EAOS- you are still on the book for a decade after retirement. You can be called back. You get paid significantly less than minimum wage -even for high skilled jobs. Here is the Big difference. You sign a contract with a set of terms and then- guess what they changed the terms. Tell me why that is ok?
If those hadn’t “signed up, or enlisted” ? Really ! Maybe we should re-instate the draft, and you could learn something. You can always get another job if you don’t like what the boss tells you, if you had the energy, but our military personnel can not. It is the only legal form of slavery in this country. JD, you should do what I always told my elementary school children to do – put brain in gear before putting mouth in motion.
Are you seriously comparing those jobs to the military. You should slap yourself. Let me know when an RPG is fitted at them or when they walk in a field an get their leg blown off. You are ridiculous. Yes there are many who abuse the system but we deserve it. We don’t get paid enough as it is. We risk or lives for you ungrateful people who take your freedom for granted. No GS employee world’s harder than the military they don’t even do the leg work because it might ruin their khakis. We all know what we signed up for but at the same time we are the 1% who do for this country so douche bags like you can voice your dumb opinions. When you spend 15 months in Iraq sleeping in a half shelter connected to a wall living in conditions that 99% of Americans wouldn’t even attempt then come talk to me.
JD you are right, but the article talks about us all being equal, I am a military firefighter and would love to make $40K in three months like many forest firefighters make. Don’t get me wrong, they earn it. But like the military, everyone chooses the job the have. If an individuals wants a job were they get to retire after 20 years at age 40 then they can get off their butt and serve. If they choose not to serve then don’t complain about those of us that do when you have no clue what it is like. Not one person, including yourself, would be chirping if we still had the draft.
You are correct in that we knew what we signed up for. But a large part of what we signed up for, or more appropriately “re-signed” up for has now been taken away. The contract has been broken! And unless you ARE a veteran and have walked in their shoes you are not qualified to judge whether they are “abusing” the compensation system!
JD,
I must say, I understand many of the author’s statements in this article. I also, understand yours. I don’t believe that anyone is trying to discredit another hardworking person, I believe this author is trying to express that the ones that risk their lives are taking pay cuts, and the ones that don’t are asking for more pay–simple math, it just doesn’t add up.
Being a long-term Vet myself, I have spent more time abroad than stateside. And, I have missed nearly every holiday you can dream of….do I complain, nope not once. I understood when I signed that I would be taking less pay, longer hours and all coupled with the chance of going to war for a one-two-three -four months/years at a time.
I analyzed this risk and decided that I would meet the challenge–this was my life choice. I suppose Vets are having a hard time swallowing pay-cuts, because they accepted this and met every challenge order and direction they were given…they were not deviants, not derelicts, criminals and the sort or they wouldn’t be entitled to the pay/benefits we are currently discussing.
Further, the civilian equivalent does may a much higher salary, has protective labor laws and is guaranteed many standards that the soldier/sailor/marine/airmen is not. Not many people voting for these pay-cuts has ever slept on the ground, or put their life on the line (God bless John McCain).
These are not firm opinions, but as a US Vet, I’d like to say that I dodged bullets and went to war + missed many family events for a country I was proud to do it for–I didn’t do it so that I could be terrorized and torn down in my own country. What is the purpose? Wars are political, unions are unions and everyone is trying to make more money, and we all have the right, except for veterans–that’s up to Congress and the president.
Cheers,
JD When we all signed that “check” we were PROMISED all the above along with each time we resigned that check. How would you like to go to work being told you would make X and two years later be told no you need to give X back?? Well that is what you are asking all of us now and retired. If you wish to change the benifits then you must do it to the people coming in not change once we have done our part. Just my two cents for you to chew on.
GSEC Bolanowski 24 years and counting. you welcome for your right to say what you please about my brothers and sisters at arms.
JD, I don’t know of many federally employed crab fisherman but I guess you do. As for the “you knew what you were signing up for, the military isnt a brand new concept, you didnt have sign up or re enlist, war is hell” comment, I agree but the point he is making is, yes, we did know what we signed up for and now Congress is changing that.
The day I hear that the crabs have started to strap bombs to themselves in the name of Allah is the day I stop eating seafood all together and the day that power lines figure out how to hide IEDs is the day I become hard core Amish.
Can’t find previously written reply. I M CMSgt James Desrosiers
You sir are a dumb ass not knowing what you are talking about . I was drafted out of college and didn’t get to finish. Sent to Viet nam . Have worked 12 years as a federal employee . And I have had to fight to get what benefits I have not and you have the audacity to say I chose to be put through what I was in Viet nam and the problems I’ve had the rest of my life shame shame on you you low life!
Can’t find previously written reply. I M CMSgt James Desrosiers
So how many Iraqi were firing at the men crabbing, or climbing the power lines, or even diving into the forests? At any rate, the question isn’t who has the most dangerous job. The question is, when you make a promise of benefits to compensate for the dangers and rigours of a job, why is it ok to then change your mind and abandon your word. I agree that there is overspending. There is overspending in EVERY facet of the government. But the RIGHT solution is to make changes that effect future enlistees, not those who served or are serving based on compensations promised.
JD,
If you want to use the “you know what you signed up for” card, then fine do it. But keep this in mind…yes, we knew what we signed up for. We also knew what compensation we signed up for. We signed a contract for all of this. So, essentially, the government is reneging on their part of the contract. If this was a civilian business, the civilian could either quit their job and move on or sue the company for breach of contract. In the military, once you sign on the dotted line, you give up your right to sue or “leave the job”.
I fail to see the logic in your post.
Are you crazy? If you’re working as a high power lineman or fighting forest fires:
1. You can quit if you don’t like it
2. You get paid really decent wages
3. Even in those careers they don’t send you in to a situation where they’re pretty certain you are going to get killed or captured
4. They give you warning before they send you in the middle of the night to parts unknown.
5. You can tell your family where you are and what you’re doing.
6. There is always a similar less dangerous career field you can transition to.
7. These jobs don’t force you to move all over the place.
8. You’re not getting shot at by people who are legally (in their country) paid to kill you.
9. You or your surviving family can sue the craps out of a company if they do something fantastically negligent and get you killed.
10. In the civilian world, you always have a choice and the worst that happens is you lose your job. In the military those same choices get you shot for desertion, put up on court martial for disobeying orders, shot for mutiny, or put in prison for failing to handle a situation.
11. You’ll never wind up being torturedendlessly as a prisoner of war.
12. Large numbers of these other careers don’t end up with you coming home with the burden of a lifetime struggle with PTSD.
13. In no other job can you be subjected to ALL of these at the same time.
It is not the same. It is a sacrifice far beyond normal civilian job.
JD, yes we knew what we were signing up for when we joined the service and all the things that are being cut were in the contract that was signed. Last time I checked contracts were legal agreements & the gov’t will sure hold a service member to their end of the legal agreement if the service member were to try to renege. If a service member tried to say, “well, I don’t want to go to this duty station.” or just not show up for work one day they’d get into a hell of a lot of trouble, the least being paperwork and the most being jail time. Therefore, why shouldn’t Congress have to hold up their end of the deal? This article isn’t arguing about having to fulfill the contract that was signed on the service members’ end but rather Congress trying to back peddle out of THEIR obligations. Retirement benefits were part of the deal when we signed on the dotted line, so don’t go changing them now. But I’m sure if you signed on with a company and they promised you things (such as a certain amount of pay or a certain number of years before you could retire w/ a certain percentage of that pay) and then they changed their minds the year before you were to retire then you’d be ok w/ that, huh!?
JD. No one is taking away from other professions that sacrifice for the American people. Anyone who thinks someone who goes to the doctor because they have a cold and expect the government to pay for it because they served in the military is wrong should be ashamed of themselves. Oh did I mention the cold was actually long term damage from Agent Orange exposure they experienced on Vietnam. Shame on that person for expecting the government to pay for it. Let’s punish law abiding citizens because there are some who take advantage of the system. Oh wait! America already does that. I am in the military and this article brought tears to my eyes towards the end when I think of all the things I have sacrificed over the last 17 years.
To all the Americans who take for granted their freedom and have to “ability” to even talk about cutting military pay, YOUR WELCOME!
“You knew what you were signing up for.”
I absolutely did, and then Congress and the DOD changed what it was that I signed up for.
I wanted to respond to this comment with this as I explained to a sheriff deputy {You knew what you were getting into when you signed on with the sheriff’s office,
when an opening occurs at the fire department how many applicants do they have and by the way I believe both fire department and cop jobs have a 20 year retirement . At any given time a cop may have one or two people wanting to hurt him versus hundreds when in battle situation. No job is as dangerous as being in battle for bunches of losers like those who do not support our soldier
JD, you do realize that crab fishermen, high power linemen, forrest firefighters, and all other non-military jobs in the US are not the same as the military. You do know that service members can’t quite, look for a new job where they want to live, call in sick, drive more than a few hundred miles from their duty station with authorization, or even role their eyes at those who outrank them. I’m about to retire after 27 years in the Army, and even that simple request has to be approved before I can begin 12 months of appointments, screening, etc. before I can take off the uniform. In any other job, including GS, you are free to go home the day you are eligible to retire and not come back the next day. Like magic, you are retired. Only in the military can a retiree be brought back onto active duty at the needs of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corp. Not even optional, confined in the military judicial system if you blow off the recall. I’ve never heard of a retired crab fishermen, high power linemen, or forrest firefighter being brought out of retirement or charged with a crime if they didn’t show up.
Amen to that!!! These people of whom you speak have no idea of the sacrifices made during a career. Nor do they see a need to understand.
Comment made but forgot above info!
Chief, sorry, I don’t see you earlier comments in the pending approval box. Can you resend?
v/r, JS Bateman
Sir, what strikes me as strange is that we are arguing the wrong point. History has shown that every economic crisis our beloved leaders get us into their plan for resolution comes at the detriment of the middle class. I feel certain, from reading the preceding blogs, that most participants are members of the middle class. Crab catcher or retired military, you are middle class. if you haven’t felt a squeeze yet, you will. Why are you not complaining about the retirement plan or health plan our 543 Washingtonian big-wigs give themselves. Have you ask them when they last cut their own benefits? How about their illegal attack on the first two amendments to our constitution? Why can’t we find a single representative that understands a balanced budget means don’t spend more than you make? If we don’t stand up together, instead of arguing on the merits of our jobs, we will all be working for the government for whatever they want to pay us. Marx’s manifesto back in action. You can scream at me all you want, for I m lying on my death bed under the care of Hospice. I know what lies ahead for me? Do you? Retired Chief Master Sargent Jim Desrosiers.
Thanks for your wise council Chief. I think the inter-service, inter-job sniping is ridiculous. I’m glad so many people saw and commented on my original post, but I wonder if we all are just preaching to the choir? Let’s DO SOMETHING. I’m going to send my original article to my entire congressional delegation along with the site stats showing 108,000 people visited the site. WE ARE paying attention and WE CARE. Feel free to do the same using my words or craft your own – many of you are very articulate. Best, JS Bateman
As the Founder/Executive Director of the Military Advocacy Project of Louisiana AND a disabled Gulf War veteran, I salute you, job well done. “Overcompensated”….how absurd!! So having to wait WEEKS for an appointment with my primary care provider, MONTHS for any diagnostic testing (even under “stat” orders), having to live off of ONE income (my disability) for years, suffering repeated hardships, and on and on is ones idea of overcompensation, then my thought process must be totally flawed. How disgusting for ANYONE to say our military is overcompensated!! Yes, our civilian counterparts (police / fire) risk it all as well, and we TRULY appreciate their service, however the huge difference in compensation is that they receive benefits through the private sector if you will, they don’t have to wait weeks or months for healthcare, they don’t have to “fight” the VA disability rating system for 6, 7 or 8 yrs, just to get a 10% rating and have to appeal, adding another 2 or 3 yrs. Of course, and as you’ve mentioned, all of the other intangibles of missing significant moments in life, on multiple occasions because you’re 5000 miles away. Bottom line, we can NEVER be adequately compensated, but then again, we never asked to be anyway.
Thanks Shawn. Feedback from someone like you means a great deal to me. Thank you for your service in the past and present.
This is sooooo true. My husband a disabled Army Vet, did NOT serve in any War, yet there are operations and military actions that warriors get hurt in, that they cant discuss. My husband was put on a 20lb weight lift restriction, to which everyone knows, NO ONE will employ you. NOT even Wal-Mart. I never went to college and was a stay at home mom for years. My employment will NOT support our family. We have been living on his 30% compensation, which is 476$ for a family of 3. You can barely feed a teenage boy for that much. So we lower ourselves to apply for social programs. Not only is my husband living with the pain and suffering of his injury. He has to suffer with the indignity of others helping provide for his family. Our car was repossessed, and we have had to move in with his family. There are no jobs in this area, so I have had to take a job out of state to keep us from sinking further into poverty! So now our family will be separated by 800 miles. Still have heard nothing from his raise in compensation it has been almost 5 yrs now. We have jumped through every hoop, dotted every i and crossed every t that the government has made us do. Paperwork upon paperwork. Still we hold our heads high and support every man and woman that risks their lives everyday. Thank you for the article and the feedback. Its nice to know that others are supporting you. I know we are NOT alone in our plight, but we cant give up. We are still fighting for what is ours!!!
I am sorry to hear about your misfortunes you sound like my wife cause we went through the same exact thing it was either take the money we saved up before we got medically discharged and put it towards living til my va benefits kicked in or live out of my 2005 GTO that got repossessed. Needless to say you know what we did the worst part is I went from making 5000 dollars a month to being retired and don’t make half of that and could get no help we live in a half remodeled trailer and yet we still hold our heads high. So pls continue to hold your heads high and always look forward no matter how far indebt we fall from our overcompensation.
I have to say thank you to the author of the main article. You have created a true picture of how a lot of us feel. I just wish others could understand how it feels to go to another place and defend them because someone else said it was needed and you have to watch your friends and troops die in your presents and you come back and your a mad out to be the bad person. Pay us for that please.
Well said JC. Thank you for writing.
I am so offended by the ignorance of those who talk about things they know nothing about. There is SOOOO much hypocrisy in Washington. Offensive on a very deep level. I agree with everything in your article and I could list MANY more things I would like to be compensated for after the 23 years we have spent as an active duty family. My cousin would like to be compensated for the 6 months+ that his daughter had to live with his MIL since he and his wife were both deployed to Afghanistan at the same time. I wish you veterans all the best .
I work for the Corps of Engineers deployed to Afghanistan in 2011 to see for myself the conditions our service members endured. I rolled out on many project missions supported by active duty military. Even being a civilian DA employee did not make me any more immune to PTSD issues when I reintegrated to my “normal” job. I don’t know a single person in the Services or DoD that does their job for the money. We work for the people, we protect The People. People who talk about our compensation behind our backs are disrespectful and haven’t a clue about what it really takes to work for and protect The People. Outstanding article. Thank you for putting it down on paper.
Any idea how hard it is to have to push your child away and look at your wife hoping she’ll help so you can leave?
Garbage like this is the reason that when my 5 year contract is up in a year or so, I’m done. The Army, especially the Infantry, takes a huge physical and mental toll and if I cant be guaranteed the medical whether physical or mental treatment to keep me 100% then I feel like it will be a disservice to my unit, my family, and my country. Don’t get me wrong, I love my job. However, I can barely keep up with bills, I’m 23 and have bad knees, shoulders and bad ankles, and this country is doing a horrendous job taking care of her Veterans. As much as I’d love to deploy and fight for my country once more, I won’t be…..because my country won’t take care of me.
Thanks for an amazing article. I’m an Air Force spouse and I can’t tell you how hard it is to find a job because of how often I have left one due to moving. All people see is that I have left x amount of jobs and not that I’m a hard working person. Many people forget about the sacrifices of the families as well as the military member themselves. I say if those in Congress served a month in our military members shoes then the views would drastically change.
Both my parents are vets of WWII. They never went overseas, but worked the long hours in what was then “radio radar”, keeping equipment in planes ready to go at all times. They enjoyed far more benefits than current vets are getting. And, in my opinion, were not nearly compensated enough. Both had health problems stemming from their service and simply worked through it. I have classmates that were in Vietnam, nieces, nephews and frends that have served in every messy disagreement this country has been involved with. All of them work hard, long hours, put their lives on the line and get kicked in the backside for doing it. We should be ashamed of those government people we elect and those government employees we allow to keep working.
I was enlisted for ten years made Tech Sargeant in that time frame and deployed many times. I seperated in 2001 and loved the Air Force, miss it for the most part but wasnt going back to the deseret for a 4th time. All this aside the military makes more at certain ranks than there civilian counter part. Yes lower ranks dont but hey what job and or duty do you start at General or Ceo. Lets face it the majority of military are in as they had no opportunity and come from low income families are young and on there own for the first time and finacial irresponribility is ramped in the military. As you state these other jobs you might not be able to die and the military you do well sir lets remember one large difference the military is VOLUNTARY! So do I respect the military, hell yes, am I sick of horn tooters with sob stories, hell yes. It was a choice to join and that comes with the things you outlined above. And before I get blasted for the statement I had multiple achievement medals and accomendation medals made below the zone E4 made E5 first time back when they promoted 7 percent not the new sign up and here ya go and E6 second time testing and had an honorable discharge. You want more money? Drive by a base as I do daily looks like a new car lot and a ghetto all in one, hats sideways, macking in your uniform, what happen to ironing? Blosing your pants? PDA? Thanks
Travis,
First I will say thank you for your service. But then I have to say, even with your 10 years you have no clue! You got out before the constant unending deployments started. I am in the Air Force and have been for 18 years. I have served in peace time and war. And I will tell you that during the time that you served it is night and day to now. So you cannot compare your time to ours. And as for the uniforms you need to look at 36-2903 things have changed! Oh and if it was so good why did you leave? I mean you were half way there. Oh and you must have got out just before or right after it all started, if you really wanted to you could have come back in. You sir have no clue anymore nor any right to express what you think about the military now. Serve 12+ years in a constant war (and no Northern and Southern watched does not count I served in both also) . Maybe there is a reason you left when your ” experience” and “leadership” was need the most,
Travis, I too served in the AF and got out in 2000. And as Dirtyherk mentioned, you have zero clue what the military is like now. My husband in Army and has been away more than he has been home. Furthermore, your “medals and achievements” mean nada in terms of TODAYS MILITARY. The fact that you feel the need to “oh look at my accomplishments” is just beyond pathetic.
Thank you Travis!
“Lets face it the majority of military are in as they had no opportunity and come from low income families are young and on there own for the first time and finacial irresponribility is ramped in the military. ” I’m sorry but you are completely wrong. I, myself, am the total opposite of what you described, and while you probably used the term “majority” to give yourself a buffer i have to disagree with you! Most people do have other opportunities but they choose to serve. Look up Pat Tillman, since majority of people seem to be more familiar with famous and popular names. Plus what the hell gives you the right to judge other peoples experience in the military, you got out before the crap started.
Travis,
Let me get this straight:
10 Year TSgt (E-6)
Multiple Achievement Medals
Multiple “Accomendation” Medals (They’re call Commendation Medals by the way)
Below the Zone Promotion
SSgt (E-5) first shot
TSgt (E-6) second shot
Yeah I believe everything you’ve posted. YOU’RE A POSER NOTHING MORE!
Your “Resume'” above tells me you were probably forced out/separated and this is childish attempt to “get back” at the Air Force that would not have you. If you got out in 2001 you have NO CLUE what serving nowadays is like…
“I was enlisted for ten years made Tech Sargeant in that time frame and deployed many times”
well the first thing you should have learned is how to spell “Sergeant” … best of luck to you.
Please tell me what dollar value I should expect in my next check to compensate me for the loss of my first wife. She died subsequent to childbirth after we were ordered to move across the world at 34 weeks gestation (pregnant). Unfortunately, the nurses in that country didn’t recognize or know how to respond to her particular obstetric emergency. We BEGGED to stay in the US until after our son was born. But, orders are orders …
Bob Sylvester-sorry about your horrible loss. HOWEVER, there are guidelines about travel during the last trimester. I don’t know your service, but it sounds like something was not right…………………………..! And there is more to this than a simple pregnancy. It is very unfortunate on a good day but, even though it is not mentioned very much, complications can occur during childbirth regardless of what country.
Mary Ann,
How heartless and self-serving of you. Your comments served no purpose in this thread, other than to highlight the fact that you had a piece of, at this moment, irrelevant knowledge. The bigger issue is, you thought nothing of your underlying insinuation and/or how this might be received by Bob; hasn’t he experienced enough pain? Shame on you. I hope you reflect on this and adjust your self-centric ways.
Bob,
I am so sorry.
I work aircraft maintenance on C-17A cargo jets, and must thank you for these words. Though they may fall on deaf ears, it’s important that those we work for repay us in kind by fighting for us in the political field.
Children food stamps are being cut. WIC programs are being cut. I know of many senior citizens who served in the military, don’t get compensation, only Social Security, and they don’t get much of a yearly pay raise. Many struggle to put food on the table. All this, but don’t some veterans are complaining about Their pay cuts. They harp on how they served proudly, but don’t want to sacrifice, like others have to when it comes to cuts. Ten years from now when America see how much money is going to people who got injured in the day room playing pool, or to the never ending complaints of mental illness, many fake it, but there is no way to really tell, so they pay them. No one dares to challenge because you will be labeled a hater of those who Volunteer to Serve in the military. I believe they should have to bear the cuts like every American citizen has too.
Mike, There is a huge difference between what you mentioned and the Military. The military EARNED those benefits. also, those people you mentioned, do they have to do any life threatening jobs to get those benefits? Do those participants have to be away from family and friends for up too a year at a time? And actually Welfare has NOT had to take cuts and is one of the most abused systems there is, Welfare spending has jumped UP 32% under Obama.
WOW!! I cannot believe you are trying to compare free giveaways like WIC and Welfare to an earned benefit. Even worse, I think that you might actually believe they belong in the same category.
Jesus said: It is more Blessed to Give than to Receive. I look down on no one and look up to Jesus.
Well, you need to “look up” the definition of an earned benefit. Idiot.
HAHA…I see what you did there, and I approve!
Keep Jesus out of this. He/she has nothing to do with the contract I signed.
Excellent article, thank you, except one piece of info was inaccurate. Civil Service does not get paid more than military. Not even close. Military pay nowadays is much more decent that it used to be – as it should be. That is only due to the fickle “generosity” of [read: polling pressure on] Congress in recent years, though, and that as we all now know is quickly fading at the behest of DoD. The war is not even over and they come after us like this. Feels like things are already going back to the norm of the 90s.
Overall I agree with your sentiments 110%. I hope my brothers and sisters in the Active Duty force realize this is a battle in a much larger war, one being waged on the working class as a whole. The Active Duty retirement system is one of the very last retirement systems out there that was, until now, untouched. Using sound tactics they waited until Active Duty were isolated and alone on that battlefield, and then they struck. While this is a shock to many on Active Duty, those of us in the remainder of the working class saw this coming. We stand ready to fight for you to make sure you get back what’s yours – which should be the highest standard for compensation and benefits due to, as you rightly point out, that unlimited liability clause.
Unfortunately there is a culture taking hold in this country, lead by the Paul Ryan types, in which the existence of any type of pension is viewed as “lavish” and should, ultimately, be abolished and traded for some kind of market-based solution. (Subject to the whims of the market casino, as we saw in 2008.) Hopefully all of us under the same attack now realize this IS an attack on ALL of the working class, and they saved the military for last. The military might be able to fend off the next attack on their own, but if we want to prevent the conversation from even happening we will all have to stand together and fight the larger war together. United we stand, divided we beg.
Thanks for your intelligent comments Ben. I do respectfully disagree with you on the civilian pay issue, though I admit military pay has gotten better. Let’s say you wanted to replace an all-military aircraft maintenance unit with one that is all civilian. You might do that at a place with no mobility mission but high skill demands – civilians tend to be older and more experienced. To do so, you would need to provide 2 military off-sets for every civilian you hire, because the civilians are literally TWICE as expensive. Why? They have a higher base salary (say GS-7 and up), and, when they work overtime – they get paid for it – hence my point.
Firefighters and policemen, bless ’em, go home at the end of their shift, be it 8 hours or a couple days. No one goes “home” while at sea on a ship or suffering sand in the desert for months at a time. Yep, I retired after 20 years. But I will gladly compare and contrast the hours I spent on the job during those 20 years with any other profession. To equate the years of service between active duty military and other jobs requires a suspension of logical thought.
The policeman and fireman can, if they so desire, walk off the job and quit anytime they want. I don’t recall any Chief of mine giving me that option, not after I raised my right hand and swore to “support and defend”.
The policeman and the fireman may well belong to unions that would fight to protect their jobs and benefits. Active duty military stand ready to fight for their freedom to belong to a union. But cannot, by virtue of their profession, belong to a union themselves. We simply expected the American people and our elected representatives to fight for us.
We expected too much.
Absolutely, it is a matter of recognizing the sacrifices, and hardships, and GRATITUDE ! I see most people going on with their lives in this country seeming oblivious to what our military families deal with; in most elections in my county of over a million people only 25% of the voters can get their butts out of their queen-sized pillow top beds to vote while this country had tens of thousands of men sleeping in tents on foreign sand – if they were lucky enough to have one ! This country can’t afford to pay them for being “at work 24/7/365” , but we should WANT them to have what we were able to have while they were “at work”. Three generations of military service in my family, and I am still amazed at how much some endure.
My husband & I are both AD . . . of course all this talk of “overcompensation” is nonsense!! Therefore, since we’re going there, I’d like to add yet another item that will make us equal & comparable to our Federal civilian counterparts……
MY TSP IS JUST WAITING TO BE MATCHED, DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR, UP TO 5%!!!!!!! How about yours?!
We need to fire them all. It should be required for Congress to have served in the military. If this stupid pay cut stays the next cut should be congress. They make 174k to start. How about reducing their pay 83k and raises 1%?
I’m in agreement on your sentiment to ‘fire them all’ and others who wrote that those in Congress should’ve served in the US Military. I am however continually flabbergasted at how the men and women in uniform keep voting in major numbers for those in Congress, mainly the GOP, who are only giving lip service to your deserved needs. I bet you that you’ll all be voting GOP/TParty in 2016 for the likes of cry babies like Sen. Cruz. While there isn’t any major difference between the political parties you ought to do some serious research into the efforts made by some Democrats to help veterans. The GOP has done zilch on improving the economy and keeps you distracted by issues like abortion, gays and the so-called war against Christians but they don’t give a damn about the unemployed, the poor, single women and others. Carry on lads. Keep voting against your self-interests. BTW, I for one would really support a return of the draft for the simple reason that all of you are kept in a bubble with so few Americans exposed to the real hardships of serving, especially as the ‘grunts’. Blame the media while we’re at it for keeping the masses uninformed and misled with Fox News, the military’s PR machine doing a mighty good job promoting more wars for enriching their masters which include the military-industrial-political machine. Thank you for your service. My stay with some of you in Camp Salerno in Khost, Afghanistan, has made a strong supporter of those in uniform in this country.
Where Is my post agreeing with the cuts. Not fair in posting only comments that agree with you!!
Your post is there, Posted at 9:12pm. There is nothing unfair happening.
Apologies, Mike (and others), all comments are welcome. We’ve had issues with the server probably due to the popularity of this particular post, but everything seems to be up and running again.
Thank you for writing this. People do not get it. For example in your #3, above, you mentioned moving 18 times in 32 years. I can see a lot of non-military folks saying “I’ve moved my family a lot of times too”. What they dont get is that they may have moved 18 times but it was mostly to a different place in and around the same area. They didn’t move away from all of their family and friends. Probably kept the same job and may have even had the opportunity to keep their kids in the same school. Active military members, when we had to move X amount of times, it was to a different state or country even. Your friends, your spouse’s and kid’s friends? All gone. Bye, send a Christmas card.
Also, I was a single parent for well over half of my 21+ years. When I was deployed or on temporary duty for weeks to several months at a time, I had to split my kids up with different families while I was gone. Then you pay for them to be housed, fed, taken to school, ect., and still pay rent/mortgage on your home and hope you have someone to check on the place every so often. Financially, you almost never come close to breaking even.
This is not about “Oh poor poor us”. By the time we re-enlisted for the 2nd or 3rd time, we are well aware of the potential consequences of our decision. The pension, healthcare, ect., have been hard earned and well paid for. Our duty was done with honor. You should be ashamed to even consider not holding to your end of the bargain.
I’m an engine guy for AWACS. Tinker is my 4th base in just under 8years. Now I’m not he list for ERB this year. My time may possibly be at an end soon and for what? A year away from my family while being stationed at Kunsan? Or “defending freedom” while my wife sits at home 7months pregnant. Congress gets paid on average $100,000+ a year per person to make decisions and military get paid 32000 to go defend freedom? Ok now where to take from. Why can’t anybody else see it..
Explain this a TSgt in the Air Force receives a cap of 1250 british pounds for housing. A GS-9 receives 2300 pounds for housing.
Mike what sacrifice are you speaking of when you dare speak of walfare and food stamps? What sacrifice did these people give to go on these programs or refuse to work all together. My day room injury as you like to call them came from weapons loading aircraft, the so called fix is to just perscribe me with narcotics, 13 years and I cannot seriously do any physical labor without messing my back up more but hey I havent sacrificed enough, I mean a marriage, childrens birthdays, getting shot at, yelled at, knowing if I make even the smallest mistake the consequences could be jail time, PTSD, 60 hour weeks before deployment god knows the hours during and all that for my cute check of just over 1000 a month. Yea no sacrifice there, I will just walk that right off
I speak of children and not able bodied people. Many people on “welfare” work and do not deserve the label of being lazy. WWJD? I believe he would feed a hungry child. When I speak of day room injuries, I did not mean people who are obvious suffering legitimate injuries. I believe that was obvious. You volunteered for the service, and I don’t buy all that I did it to serve my country. Many joined to have a job, to travel, and for the benefits offered at the time. I don’t see why some soldiers want to be hero worshipped. If they served so proudly, why not take a pay cut, and live up to the creed of Proud To Serve. What makes former and current soldiers exempt from pay cuts? Why can’t they sacrifice in civilian life too?
So according to your Logic, you sign a contract to buy your house meet all the requirements and the bank can just add another 5 years worth of payments without your consent and that would be OK. If you are owed something, it sticks in your crawl a bit when someone refuses to pay, similar to being robbed. You have it right though Mike, if there is a group that is going to suck it up and take one for their country, it’s Veterans. We may complain, but it isn’t likely that we would put all the marketable skills we’ve been given and put them to use to fix what has gone wrong here.
I would like to start by saying that J Bateman was an awesome commander that I had the privilege to work for at Pope AFB. We were Security Police/Forces. We deployed all over this world conducting missions. I stayed in the Air Force 23.9 years and I am now 100% total and Permanent disabled. I had two surgeries on my vertebrae; 3-7) three reconstructed surgeries on my knees, and a few other procedures. I came in at 18 and retired at 42. We conducted duties as cops that our civilian counterparts never did, unless they were Air National Guard or Reservist that was activated from time to time. I can barely walk and am in constant pain. I pay for Tricare prime for my children and also Medicare, which is 1260 a year; I don’t need it as I go to the VA for all my medical needs. It really makes me mad when our politicians or the general public can sit behind their desk or in their living room and say what we as Veterans deserve or not; I would love to see them work as a sentry for unknown amount of hours, or patrol areas where known terrorist are, or just simply, get deployed without notice and not be able to tell anyone where you are; pretty stressful; I am just saying that in the words of one of my commanders “Freedom is not Free!!!!
Thanks Freddie, for your great comments and for your service.
You forgot another perk of being a civilian government employee!
MATCHING TSP (retirement account) CONTRIBUTIONS!
As much as 3-5% of you salary if you’re a civilian government employee, but guess what that is if you’re in the military??? ZERO!!!
I would like to see congress take a huge pay cut and then get no automatic pension for life. You can bet they would be screaming and kicking. Leave the military alone
Pretty interesting article posted: I started my service in 94 as a Ranger, pay was about 710.00 a month. so imagine my delight when i got my whole 110.00 a month in Jump pay. My average day started at 5:30am on Monday and ended some time Friday morning. Sometimes, most times, you go 3 or 4 days without sleep, sleep was an hour or two then keep on moving. Months gone from what people call a house, home was a ruck, not I place I would not see, for 9 months out of a year, I paid for it just did not live there.
I have worked every where from the jungles of central America, deserts of Iraq, and the arctic of Alaska. My friends have been there with me. Over the years, I can say me and my “friends” have stood on the sidelines suited up, while politicians made peace, that was a good day. I can honestly say that not one of my friends has ever bad mouth their service to this country. Even when the politicians could not “make” peace. We standing there suited up, made WAR, even then they did not bad mouth this country.
I ended my “time” in the service as a Flight Warrant, in the many years I have been mortared while going to the “optometrist”, and getting a hair cut, and going to the grocery store, (PX/BX), and even watched friends die. At his funeral(loading his body on a C17 to Dover). We got shot at, and i think mortared at the same time not sure if it was mortars or VBED/ IEDS being detonated, (killing more people) we were to busy running throwing his casket on the plane, and medical was trying to get the guy who got shot in the head to the hospital. Remarkably he lived. Still, the weird thing is nobody complained or or bad mouthed this country. The Crew chiefs ran with the pilots to the helicopters, TOC people back to positions in the TOC, and we went back to our “JOBS”.
I talk to my friends as we begin the “age” of retirement and trying to get actual civilian jobs. The military service is no longer the easy transition to a civilian job, preexisting medical problems can be a very massive hurdle to gaining employment. Who would have thought you could have so many from 20 years of service in the military, even more injuryies for some who have served even less, friends missing body parts, one his right leg. He does not complain, he says he is lucky, the two guys with him, well they died. I could tell you these things all day, we could be here a long time.
At the end of this I can say not one person I know personally joined the military to retire or for the benefits, we were too Young, and stupid, to think that far a head. We joined to serve the Country, go places to protect those who did not have the ability to protect them selves, and to make those thinking of attacking this country shake at that very thought of actually doing so. Even to the point Americans feel safe traveling any where in the World because they know the Military AND, even Coast Guard (shout out to my buddy K & L now flying CG rescue) will be there if something happens.
Keep comparing military retirement to Food stamps, welfare, or Wic. Its your right, Your an American Civilian, enjoy that great free speech, drink it down like a nice glass of fine wine and sleep well knowing that others or protecting that right.
I don’t think retirees or Military members are asking people to Kiss their ass, just not take away what that have planed on receiving in the later years of what I would call delayed living. I ask you to take away one thing from this. For the Super Bowl in 2009, we were flying air security for a route clear team for a mission to follow. While others had big parties back home, chips, dip, beer and BBQ. The only two comforts those kids got on the ground was us relaying the score from the TOC, and that we would lay waste to anybody that had the balls to shoot at them. Remember that as this football season comes to an end.
Joe, thank you for adding some real color to my argument, and more importantly, thank you for your service. Rangers Lead The Way!
I enjoyed the read Mr. Bateman, and truly expected more replies, both pro and con.
Being a retired service member myself, I agree with your writing because I, like countless others, have, are, and will continue to live through the trying times of military service and retirement, wish to express my heart felt gratitude for their service, past, present, and well into the future. However, I wish to discuss the current events and explain, from my perspective, why it is “business as usual”. and has been for generations.
As for compensation or perceived benefits any Soldier, Airman, Sailor, Marine, Reservist, or National Guardsman may receive for service to their Country is at the whim of our elected officials. Has been for generations, and there is not any foreseeable future change with this structure on the horizon. With that said, I personally abhor the Congressional decision because I have come from a family of proud Service members.
My father served proudly in the USMC as a member of a LRRP Team and was severely wounded during the Korean conflict. Miraculously, he survived and through the years reminded me that when my time came to serve and I needed VA benefits, I would need to be diligent and ready for a long battle. This meant that even when the Government touted medical, education, and any other benefits as earned benefits, I would have to fight diligently to prove to the Government I “earned” these benefits. This obviously has not yet changed and the VA and the rest of the government will continue to tout it as simply a backlog, or the pay scales need to be adjusted, which is always down.
Personally, I have used a couple of phrases that that has helped me maintain a focus on my duties during 24 years in the Army. 1) What the Government giveth, the Government can taketh away. Believe me, they have, they do, and they will continue that. 2.) Blue skies and sunshine. Always stated this for myself and the soldiers I was charged with to develop. It helped keep a more positive outlook for the task at hand. I still use and practice these two phrases in my continuing “rehabilitation” to the civilian sector with low paying jobs which either offer no benefits, or extremely high costs for benefits to shield my family. This means that I have to rely on Tricare, which we know the Administration wants us to pay more out of pocket and do it on less retirement income. Me thinks that before these changes, Tricare was classified as minimally meeting the requirements of the AHCA. Taking this one step further, means that Tricare will not meet the minimal requirements of AHCA and AD and retired military will be required to apply for AHCA, thus removing DOD from the “unlimited liability clause”, and further adding more expenses/taxes on a smaller income.
I also have two sons, a son-in-law, and a daughter-in-law that have retired from the service. One son and a son-in-law served 20 years in the Army and my other son and daughter-in-law served 24+ years in the USAF. They also are disillusioned with current events and broken promises. However, as I am so diligently trying to point out, this is not anything new. It has been going on for several generations. It will continue to go this way until we, the people, get fed up and force a smart change, rather than emotional changes, in whom we wish to represent us in Washington. These elected officials, for the most part, have forgotten whom they represent and whom pays their salaries, lavish vacations, as well as their outlandish retirements, not to mention those 80K a year commercials they do for television.
It is becoming more and more difficult to bring about change because our elected officials, in order to maintain some type of power base in Washington, have created a base of numerous protected groups in our society, who survive on taxpayer funds at the expense of three rather large unprotected groups-the military, the seniors, and the working class.
The working class has shrank immensely over the past few years and is slowly becoming a small group that is unable, financially, to keep up with the tax demands of the government. At the same time, our government tends to view retired military and seniors as a drain of tax resources that “robs” the protected groups of needed funds, simply because their “work” is done and any promises made to them are not binding.
I am not trying to make a political statement, per se, but, because we worked for the government and rely on the government to keep their promises, now and in the future, so that our Government can depend on those of us who choose military service, which at times is risky to our lives and limbs, but motivated to keep the people of this great Country free and maintain a highly professional military, which is currently the best in the world, we do need appropriate compensation and benefits that will always be there. If we are unable to trust our Government Leadership keeping their promises, our future wars just may become another form of government outsourcing and a highly professional military will be a thing of the past.
In closing, I render a proud OOH RAH to all military service members and their families, past, present, and future, for a job well done!! You will never be forgotten!
Bravo! Well written and eloquent.
Words from MOAA director, Admiral thank you for standing up-One thing we can all agree about is that getting it right with defense cuts is critical and that defense can do more. Out of control deficits and a dangerous rise in the national debt are national security issues.
But there is just no comparing a life in the military with civilian employment, like so many of your “defense insiders” like to do. Furthermore, the current budget act which is set to cut working age retired pay cost-of-living adjustment by 1 percent is anything but a “slight” adjustment. It’s a tax that singles out our military families and breaks faith with the troops who have already sacrificed so much.
The men and women who are contemplating a career and are currently serving around the world to include Afghanistan should not be burdened with this broken promise. Any change to the benefit should be prospective in nature rather than violate the fundamental career promise made when they raised their hand to protect our Nation.
Now about the “slight change.” A Sergeant First Class or Master Sergeant retiring this year with 20 years of service will lose $83,000 in purchasing power by the time they reach age 62 – definitely more than slight.
I wonder how the “defense insiders” would like their employer to deduct $83,000 from their 401K, and only from their 401K, on the day they retire? I’d like to see a survey about that!
America will remain the world’s greatest superpower only as long as it continues to fulfill its reciprocal obligation to our top-quality all-volunteer force. The budget deal is not good for defense. It endangers the stability of the All-Volunteer Force, as the American public will learn if this segment of the budget bill is not changed.
How ridiculously frustrating that Congress disgustingly always picks on the weakest link in the “able to fight back” chain. No one in the military is part of the 1%, or the 2%, or even the 25%. No one lives in a mansion. No one easily signs up, or re-enlists, it’s an extremely weighty decision. No one is unaware of both their personal sacrifices, and also the lack of actual appreciation from so many people. No one loves their military housing, money-pit “benefit”. No one enjoys getting chewed out because their lawn wasn’t mowed while they are 8 months pregnant and their husband is deployed to “undisclosed location”. No one enjoys their young children waking up in hysterics because they miss their deployed parent so very much. No one loves not getting sick time, overtime, or not being able to quit and walk away. No one enjoys the lack of good, caring, professional doctors and medical care from military doctors. No one enjoys not being able to go home for the funeral of their parent. No one enjoys having to be away for over a decade from family for Christmas, Thanksgiving, ________ <–insert special occasion here, or even their child's birth. No one enjoys wearing 4+ hats because of personnel cuts and there never being enough people, yet not even getting paid half of what a private sector person doing just one of the jobs they are *required* to do gets paid to do with overtime and sick days. No one wants to have to move their family to a new place where they all have to start completely over again, because of military needs, while family needs are Never considered. No one really wants to not be able to get a job because her husband's military schedule and 4+ hats are so demanding, she can't even schedule an appointment while finding childcare. But, we do it. Because freedom is more important that what we want.
Everyone enjoys the freedom to be able to speak their mind. Well, except those who volunteered to help us keep it, that is. No, our military heroes do not get to voice their opinions on political matters, they don't get to fight back against the unfair, they don't get to picket Washington, or go on strike for more fair wages with equal pay to private sector, overtime and sick days.
Congress does not deserve the majority of what they have voted on for themselves.
I say we let the military vote on their own pay and benefits. I bet they will still be a lot more humble and fair, even self-sacrificing than our Congress and this administration will ever be.
It’s called service for a reason and while I agree with the examples of hardship and uniqueness of the military as you described them and am experiencing them first hand, I find the scale of moral outrage in response to the retiree COLA reduction vastly disproportionate to scale of that reduction — and the “we deserve” mentality that has developed in our military over the past decade in stark contrast to the concept of service. Let alone voluntary service.
We apply for the job and; if found qualified, we accept the job knowing full well what the job is. There is no one serving with me in the U.S. military today who has not joined, extended, or re-enlisted by choice during this extended period of high optempo.
Is it a hard life? Absolutely. Are we overcompensated? No.
But do we deserve more than a thank you? No. And our morally outraged hyperbolic self-entitled response to the loss of what amounts to a few dollars per month is a disappointing display of leadership by example.
We are the group of Americans perhaps best positioned TO lead by example. To help shift the national mindset of entitlement. To demonstrate what it means to put service before self. And it does us a great disservice to use the very rhetorical techniques of hyperbole and selective use of facts to preserve what we “deserve.”
The very argument that “I served and sacrificed, therefore I deserve” is antithetical to the concepts of service and sacrifice.
From Helmand, Afghanistan in month 11 of a 12 month deployment: I choose to serve.
Cliff W. Gilmore
A United States Marine
*curses* Just caught the rogue semi-colon and noted the last sentence in the fifth graph was intended to read, “And it does us a great disservice to use the very rhetorical techniques of hyperbole and selective use of facts to preserve what we “deserve” employed by those whom we decry.”
BTW, JS Bateman — superb site and solid writing. Keep chargin’. You’re doing good work here.
Cliff,
I agree 100% that we should not seek approval because we serve. Initially I too agreed that there was a lot of hoopla over the loss of what appeared to be a small amount of our cost of living adjustments..but sir, its a slippery slope. I would warn you that if we don’t fight even the slightest change to our benefits then pandora’s box is opened. The second and third order effects of taking our benefits will be that the military will no longer keep those seasoned professionals, because they know they won’t be getting benefits; they will get out of the military.
The biggest problem is that so many have been given briefing after briefing to help them plan their future around a promise that has been easily broken.
Tell me: do Muslims *in other nations* deserve our military heroes’ money? Because $313 million is going to West Bank to help them pay for their mortgages. THIS is why I am ticked! Congress refuses to touch their own benefits, but you know, military can’t fight back, so there’s the easy way. Contractors for the military, like the ones who build the crap housing, who do substandard work are offered all sorts of benefits and paid way too much. Cut some of their money. Too much money is going out to other nations, and yet it’s the military retirees that are getting the shaft. Seriously, do you homework!
A few dollars a month??! It’s estimated it will be $84, 000 0ver 20 years for enlisted, more for officers. So, that works out to $4200 a year, $370 a month. NOT a few dollars a month. Sure, it starts out slow, gradual and builds up, but, still, that is not acceptable. They broke their promise! Again: do your homework.
I served, and yes, I felt I was sacrificing and I was surprised by how much I was given. But, it’s all necessary, nothing frivolous. I lived in an H style dorm in 1994-’96, I think it was finally torn down in ’98.
Our heroes, *you*, deserve more from our country, because they are willing to do that for even people who are killing our brave heroes.
Think about it. YOUR tax dollars help pay for your benefits, and are going out to other people in other countries to pay their mortgages. Are you seriously ok with that?
Jemtree —
I’ve done my research, done my thinking about the facts, formed my perceptions, and, no, I’m not happy with how our national budget is distributed — but the out-of-whack part isn’t our direct foreign aid, it’s military.
Cheers,
Cliff
J. Reid —
Fair points. I’ll offer this for consideration in light of the “slippery slope” defense though: If we’re headed for a waterfall together in a leaky boat, it’s not the best time say, “No. You can’t have MY bucket. I NEED MY bucket.”
Which is in no way meant to suggest I think the COLA reduction is an actual solution to our current meta-problem or that it was a good idea. Based on the public outcry, it was arguably a horrible idea — or perhaps just very poorly communicated.
The second and third order effects concern is certainly valid, but falls into the might, maybe, possibly category of considerations vice justifications (in either direction) without more info.
That said, the whole thing is a fiasco when it comes to the actual challenges the U.S. faces right now. It’s a terrific example of politicizing rather than what I’ve begun to call solutionizing.
And amidst all the horrible leadership I find myself thinking that what we need is, well, demonstrable leadership — and as I noted in my post, that demonstrable leadership could very well come from the very people who are instead just now ferociously protecting what they feel they deserve.
I suppose you might say I don’t expect much more from our current elected officials but I expect far more from my veteran colleagues.
Warm Regards,
Cliff
J. Reid —
If I may offer the following for consideration as well: The “pandora’s box/slipper slope” defense is a pretty sound tactical approach. But in terms of strategy it breaks down in context of nearly every other group out there using the same argument. I’m having trouble seeing us seeing our way clear as a nation if most everyone who wants a solution as long as it doesn’t touch them in an unfavorable way.
The obvious counter to this being, “Yeah, well, reducing retiree COLA does practically NOTHING compared to that darned bazillion dollar strike fighter that will be outdated within days of doing into service.”
But SOMEBODY has to step up.
Warm Regards,
Cliff
Cliff, your points are valid and well articulated. “Service before Self” is a core Air Force value too and it’s good to be reminded of that. See J. Reid’s comments on the slippery slope as I think he is spot on. This may just be the beginning of an assault on military benefits, especially if we are perceived as the group who just sucks it up and drives on. While I also cringe at the “entitlement mentality,” I guess I don’t see earned pay and benefits that way. We are not getting hand-outs or government assistance, we earned these things. I heard one pundit say DoD should dump the 20 year retirement and let us start 401Ks. Now I’m guessing THAT would get our attention – and I don’t think it is that far off. Thanks for your comments and for your service. Check six and get home safe.
I have to say spoke like an overeducated jarhead. No one cares where you may misplaced a semicolonin your paragraph of rambling. I disagree with what you say in every way I am proud for what I have done and who I am I do not seek any benefits that I do not deserve and as I have read most of ever post I do not think anyone on here has. But I say this and watch as it happens they may only take 1% now yeah what’s 1% nothing much right. Well what if the do it again next year or if they do wait 2yrs over a 20 year period some people could be out nearly 100k from that small 2% cut. It is like giving that dog a little rope before you know it he is at the end of it. Well guess what we are not willing to give them a little bit of rope cause as hard working and proud Americans we are already at the ends of ours.
Cliff, first keep your head down so you can live long enough to retire. Once you do; what your saying is, you are fine with a cut in your retirement pay because you are military. Because if you were a civilian doing exactly the same job in exactly the same place at exactly the same pay grade, you would not. You are also OK with the new “fund your own retirement even if your not going to retire” tax? This isn’t just a COLA cut, its COLA cut and a new “fee” or “tax” or whatever they want to call it … ah yes they call it “revenue” … Because if you were a civilian doing exactly the same job in exactly the same place at exactly the same pay grade, you would not.
What’s ironic is this isn’t about saving money, this is about opening the door to continue to cut and cut and cut and cut until the retirement is worthless, not to those that will retire but to those that have retired.
DoD and Congress screwed the pooch when they dissolved the military health care system in lieu of privatization “Tri-Care” … was going to save Billions and Billions… now the costs are eating DoD alive and this is the Congressional Fix.
Ryan clearly doesn’t get it… he should go back to podunk Wisconsin and open a small business… then maybe he’ll understand something other than “DC” and it’s cesspool of graft and corruption…
and one more thing to your comment ….”It’s called service for a reason”
Service is what you are doing now, after “service” comes the compensation you agreed to when you agreed to “serve”… if you “serve” long enough you are compensated via retirement pay. It’s the law, its not a “gentleman’s agreement”. So when they change the retirement package after retirement it breaks the faith you put in while “serving”. COLA is there to ensure that the amount agreed to is worth the same thing it was when you retired. COLA is not more money as is the raise you received this year, it merely keeps the value of your retired dollar constant. So cutting that means that you’re retired dollar is worth 1% less per year for every year until 62. for the average retiree I would expect that is a 15-17% devaluation of your retired dollar over that time. Still think it’s not that much?
JP Reilly —
All fair points. Thanks!
Warm Regards,
Cliff
Once A Marine always a Marine. Service to country doesnt stop for everyone once you have put in your 20. I must agree with Cliff on this. I have just finished an instructor tour and had 32 18 year olds looking at me when CNN told them they may not get paid Nov 1st and then again Nov 15th. My response? “Yes you have to report for duty. Because you are not here for the pay. This is not a job or a buisness, this is the Military. First and fore most you are here to serve.” With that said I am also disheartened by the lack of understanding and compassion that politicians – let’s not confuse anyone here the SecDef is a politician. A leopard can’t change its spots. – have for those that have served and sacrificed and those that continue to do so. With 17 years under my belt I see the slippery slope and I see the changes that the military has gone through. I can also see, with a fair amount of certainty, where it and our fine country is headed. Enough so, that I feel comfortable telling my 19 year old son it would not be wise to enlist. His military will be vastly different than ours. A Soldier, Sailor, Marine, or Airman may be willing to sacrifice his life but not his pay or benefits because if he or she happens to die in the service of this country he or she will find comfort in knowing that the loved ones they leave behind are well cared for and that this country has not forsaken them. I will be honest, if I died tomorrow I do not have that confidence in our government or top brass to ensure those benefits are passed on to my wife and children. Should we have to fight to save those compensations? Absolutely not. We should be able to have confidence in the leaders we elect to fight for us. The same way our Junior Marines, Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen expect us to fight for them for promotions, awards or recognition. That is our job as leaders. To look out for those that follow us.
Many people are caught up in this belief that our soldiers are “defending the country” It seems to me like the The war in Afganistan was a disproportionate response to a terrorist attack, not worthy of going to war. and also the war in Iraq was unnecessary. I could understand if it were a war like World War 2 or the Revolutionary war but this was different. I feel like soldiers were duped into the promise of honor and compensation when the government had no ability to provide that. How do we pay for this increase in benefits? Increase taxes? Run up greater deficits? Print more money? What we need are more skilled doctors to provide services for Vets the elderly and the sick. Asking for more money just makes it so that the Vets get better service over the sick or the elderly. If they all get more money then the prices just go up and they ask for more money again. (The doctors make a killing though)
Reading all these comments makes me want to work harder and faster on my project. Takin a twist on something fun where proceeds will stay local and help the troops in that state the best way fit.
Thanks to all you serving and God bless you. I have not served this country but had a chance to work with some of the best. I never understood. I was part of a first response disaster team. I was at disasters within hours of them happening. I had several National Guard guys asgned to keep me safe. I was always given pental suites, and etc. Ya, I worked the first 72 hrs on scene straight. But they always said, I need 8 hrs sleep. My thoughts are No, I havea job to do, i can sleep when I am dead. We all piled in my room. I had free room service. Lot of eatin places gave me free food. Why was I special??? I was NOT. People got it all wrong. I should have been in tent cities but our gov is so missed up on whats important. Equal not even close. And I was contract so my pay was not extra for disasters. At, one disaster there was a mix up at the car rental place I had. a van and a convertable waitin for me. Lol. I cant drive two cars. But needed the van they said, take them both. One of ny guards drove it. We all took turns sneaking away for a breather. Fair, equal??? Yes, I did work hard but couldn’t done my job as well without such incredible guys.
I dont understand how people rally for a reality tv star but can’t be bothered to change things that really matter. People are dying. What is happening to our vets and services people daily really angers me. We need to not talk about things bout put things in action. If that many people can help Phil Robertson let them help our vets.
God bless you all and thanks.
Everyone wants compensation for not making better decisions or having the less than ideal life….i just hope compensation goes to the men and women who TRULY need it, and that the ones just trying anything to get tax free disability money quits slowing that system down!!!!
I would be happy to take the cuts, if i believed it would help. I love.my country and if my 1 percent would help bring us out of debt to or freinds and well not so much friends then so be it. That said, I believe the cuts could be made elsewhere. Where? Hmm well 1/4 or more of the national debt was spent on the f35 which i have yet to see in combat.
Maybe the millions or billions in weapons sent to Syria.
Or billions spent to organize a trip to an asteriod.
Yes even if we did all those things, i would sacrifice my 1 percent fir the 20 years of service, if i didnt think it wouldnt go to politicians cousin johnny to research why frogs jump.
If i am to sacrifice more for my country let it be to make it better and get us out of debt and not balance a budget but actually reduce the debt.
I would gladly do it but i dont want to sacrifice and it be for nothing as i feel it will be when i am forced to.
Thank you for the post
I have read comments from both sides and observe much antagonism. Some rightly so. I am an ex Aussie serviceman who served for 28 year full time and 10 years part time ( US national service equivalent). My comment relates to the time frame between enlisting and determining to stay in the military. My experience notes that men and women enlist into the Defence Services for a varying reasons with minimal understanding of what Defence really entails. It is only after initial training and the first year that an enlightened individual emerges and recognises that Duty, Honour and Integrity are choices for “civilians” but are part of oneself for military personnel. Try it and learn.
Andrew L-F, dude, no one is asking for “more” money or compensation. We are simply angry that the powers that be have gone back and rewritten contracts to cut the compensation after we’ve spent years earning it. We signed a contract and fulfilled it. You can bet that if we’d tried to back out of the contract at anything other than the approved jumping off points, we’d have ended up in jail.
First I am going to admit that I am not the most informed or active political person, for which I may get killed for on this forum… but I press on anyway. I am at about 5 1/2 yrs active duty AF and I joined because I had nothing else going for me, but that’s only me. I know countless other Airmen, Sailors, Soldiers, and Marines that join because of family heritage, devotion to the Stars and Stripes, or other commendable ideals. Even though we all know the ultimate sacrifice could be asked of us, and I’ll also admit that my particular job is as easy as it gets in the mlitary as it is vital to our nation’s defense. My point being I don’t see all the combat or overly excessive hours or deployments. So here’s the thing when the idea that military is bloated, take the Secretary of the Air Force when they calculate the cuts needed to get rid of the unnecessary spending it only counts for less than 1% of the budget. This includes quality of life, medical, and TDY/PCS costs.
I also want to point out that benefits are a part of decisions that everone makes for any job. Whatever job or career that people decide to take has some sort of benefit, including base pay at the very least. Meaning thats a factor for a head coach of a NFL team or a teacher or a medic or whoever has to make to decide whether or not they are going to do it. But if said profession is promised a “thank you for your commitment” benefit for x amount of years of doing that job and the company decides to change that halfway through then there’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. Same with Congress taking retirment and other vital factors away or severely cutting back on them, but the difference is that there legally can’t be a lawsuit. And to the same degree there is no reprocussion for the decision makers for doing so.
So did we make the decision to join knowing the consequences of our decision? Yes absolutely. So whoever it was on this forum who said “So did congress” they absolutely knew and should be held accountable to their commitment just as they hold us accountable.
You have a fine style of presenting your thoughts. Very well done, as I firmly support all of your statements.
“God and Country first…Everything else is second.” Don’t they still teach that or was it only something relevant to the old timers?
I mean no offense. I am profoundly grateful to our military and their dedication. My freedom depends on them — all branches. However, if one doesn’t want to deal with the COL (cost of living) and how it affects their military employment, it’s quite simple. DON’T enlist. If you enlist, it should be for God and Country first. If you’re not satisfied while enlisted don’t re-enlist without careful consideration as to what is most important or necessary to your well being, or that of your family’s well being, come that date.
We ALL choose our own paths, and must accept the income/benefits and cutbacks that go along with them. If we become disillusioned Change is the only option. There’s a reason for detachment dates. Some may need to exercise their options and employ in the private sector. There’s no doubt they will be paid more, but I guarantee the “grass is always greener on the other side.” Especially once you’re no longer enlisted.
Having had the opportunity to meet and work with a wide array of military personnel, I guess it has always been my impression that civilians who enlist do so from the heart and for the love of their country, despite the fact that everyone needs benefits. At some point career goals and benefits clearly become equally important (as they do for most everyone). But, that doesn’t give the enlisted a right to moan about what’s expected of them in the field vs the responsibilities of a civilian or contract civilian, and then use it to justify the exclusion from cutbacks. It’s as simple as look in the mirror and ask who signed up for branch services and why. Was it to serve God and your country? Was it to form a career? Is it time to move on?
In short, I never hear WWII vets ever complain about their benefits or suggest they’re lacking, nor that of those who previously fought in the Korean War or Vietnam.
We have to draw the line. With utmost respect, Enlistment or Long term military careers should never become about entitlement. Just saying…
Liz, what part of this are you not getting? Your whole argument seems to hinge on the idea that people can get out when things change to something that is unsatisfactory. While that is true the article is about changes in retired pay for people who chose not to take the exit options based on promises they were made. For twenty six years the carrot was dangled in front of me with promises of a set of retirement benefits. Yes, I started doing this whole thing for God and country and the challenge and the sheer fun; however, when I got married and started a family, the post-retirement benefits weighed heavily on my choice to stay in and continue serving. In other words, I followed the carrot to the end of the road and now the powers that be are essentially saying, “Nah, just kidding.”
Dewayne, that is a very good point. I enlisted at 18 without a clue. 32 years later though, I was mighty interested in what lay ahead. I love the idealism and selfless comments from some of the active duty hard chargers that have posted comments on this post, but I wonder how many of them have families yet? It changes your outlook a great deal.
Liz, thanks for understanding a different point of view. I honestly had some of the most fun in my life and served with people who I am honored simply to have known. I hope you enjoyed your time, however long it was, as much as I enjoyed mine. God bless!
JS, sorry about that. I should’ve looked more closely at who posted the previous comment. Regardless, the well wishes still stand.
I had a second comment pending approval, but it seems to have disappeared. Maybe I didn’t post it right. But, I just had another thought hit me:
WHY does it have to be such a sacrifice, anyway? I know, love of country, service before self, etc., etc., etc.
I embraced that when I was enlisted, and I embrace it as a military spouse now.
But, why is it that way to begin with?
Who else loses all of their rights as they also might, and some do, lose their life? Who else has no say or right to challenge, fight back, or even walk away when things are not right?
Let’s think about this: I think it’s unfair that military enlisted and officers are so far down under everyone, when in reality, it should be our elected public servants that should be even lower. Yet, they have elevated themselves to be above laws, to be elitests, living like kings while they continue to take from those already giving everything possible.
It is time for things to change.
Where are the people wiling to fight for equality for military members?? Why shouldn’t the military be treated as equals?
Give me one good, solid reason for military members being the first, and often the only ones targeted to have benefits and pay sliced while being sacrificed to the almighty government cuts?
There are PLENTY of other unnecessary things to be cut from defense spending. Plenty. They are just taking the easiest, most public way. There is too much corruption in the government contract process. They need to cut from that. There is way too much money funding Muslim Brotherhood, and other nations, especially those who don’t even have our back! Cut that stuff out. Leave the military members alone.
Oh, I see my second comment now, thanks. 🙂
Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, Personal Courage, but only until the civilian authorities do something I don’t like, I don’t have a messiah complex or anything.
I really hate to wade into these debates, but man, articles like this can be really frustrating to read. I dislike when people get into “what someone deserves” as a metric for determining pay packages. For one thing, the author is disengenous if he thinks all military personnel risk their physical lives, or even their social lives, equally. Even by the “deserve” metric, we are drastically under-compensating some while overpaying the majority of others.
That’s why policy should focus on setting a benefits package that attracts and retains the personnel qualified to do the job rather than rewards them for a perceived level of sacrifice. And, I just don’t think that the reduction in COLA or the retirement will significantly diminishing our ability to recruit sufficient personnel.
Also not addressed is that military personnel receive all sorts of “soft pay” like access to low cost housing and commissaries (including discounted fuel) and a large portion of their income is nontaxable (BAH) and advantaged housing loans; not to mention post-service incentives like the GI Bill, which is now transferable to family. I wish the article avoided terms like “drastically” rather than providing the hard numbers. The one number that was tossed out (1% reduction in COLA) is not a pay cut any more than not raising taxes is a tax cut. There is also a logical fallacy using “known risk” versus “unknown, but known risk” to pilots against firefighters (both groups of whom may actually be “overpaid” relative to the amount required to attract and retain pilots and firefighters).
My two cents: I’d like to see more flexible pay bonus structures for the best performers and high demand specialties (i.e., those we most want/need to retain). Across the board equal compensation structures just don’t make sense when an E-5 or O-2 in one service doesn’t have an equal job to an E-5 O-2 in another, whether it’s degree of risk, sophistication of job requirements, or absence from home life. Same applies to retirement at 38-45… I’d rather see us pay more up front and during the course of service than “defer” payment until retirement (even though that’d be more expensive, it’d also be more transparent).
P.S. Personally, I’d rather we save our dollars so we can incentivize a higher % of high quality candidates to enter teaching (a sector that the USA had long gotten away with underpaying due to gender politics of the 50s through early 80s).
They already do that. That’s why there are bonuses for certain fields and not for others. It’s a means of preventing the field from being leveled and keeping the costs of retirement down. Retirement is based on your base salary, not the bonuses and other incentives.
MK, they already do that. That’s why there are bonuses for certain fields and not for others. It’s a means of preventing the field from being leveled and keeping the costs of retirement down. Retirement is based on your base salary, not the bonuses and other incentives.
MK, You obviously have a lot of DoD knowledge, and I agree with your notion of rewarding high demand specialities. Where I diverge with you is the notion that somehow the oath a clerk takes is less valuable or meaningful than that of an infantryman. I think you would like them to line up at enlistment with some sort of actuarial table by risk category – then pay them on that scale. One problem with that idea is reality. How about truck drivers? That AFSC/MOS was the most dangerous job in SWA at one point. As Dewayne points out, the military already rewards high demand folks with special pays and bonuses. That doesn’t make a truck driver any less of a warrior in my mind.
Also, though you hate to wade into these debates, please quote from my article accurately. I never used the word “drastically” in the article. I did use “dramatically” at one point referring to proposed TRICARE premium increases of over 300%. I think it fits those numbers but thank you for asking for detail. v/r, JS Bateman
Sorry about using drastically rather than dramatically. It wasn’t my intention to quote you directly, but rather provide an example of a vague term. What is the actual increase? I believe the premium is still under $100 per month, correct? Also, aren’t a least a number of retirees exempt from increases (i.e., this is a prospective measure)?
There’s also another reality: Cutting retiree benefits slightly is definitely the best place to make cuts if you are going to reduce benefits because retirees tend to have lower expenses as they get older (e.g., kids move out, houses are paid off, etc.).
As far as actuary tables at recruiting boothes, I didn’t mean to imply that I think risk should be the basis of compensation. Really, I think it should be entirely based on what is necessary to attract qualified talent to the jobs. Frankly, we don’t need to pay a ton of money as a country to hire someone who is qualified to be in most positions in the military.
And having served four deployments to the mideast since 2002, I feel fairly confident saying that not all service is equal, in terms of danger or separation. That’s just an indisputable fact, which is why I hate the “we need to pay our heroes” argument. Is the service of someone who served in relative peace time (i.e., the last 40 years save Gulf War 1) the same as a marine who was deployed to Fallujah? Of course not. Same with those who served in Germany rather than Vietnam in the 60s/70s. These are the types who constitute most military retirees. That’s not to discount the importance of each type service, but it’s clear we can’t base our pay scales on “deserve.” That would be a fundamentally anti-capitalist position, and an ironic argument for conservatives to make.
Good stuff MK. The Tricare increase is proposed – every year it seems like. Premiums would go from approx. $400 per year to around $2000 is the last one I saw. Doesn’t sound like much but it used to be a free earned benefit.
‘Merica (F)(U)(C)(K) Yeah! 3 combat tours as a Blackhawk gunner/crew chief and I approve this message. Any that think I get paid to much should have been there when we were pinching pennies to make it pay check to pay check. Kids gotta eat ya know. I’ll tell you who gets paid too much congressman, senators, and the president. Come up with a plan to cut their retirements for working less time than us. Make it a pay as you go type of job with a retirement that you pay into like all other federal jobs. My middle fingers stand errect at attention to all the nay saying know nothing waste of DNA oxygen stealers out there. Flip your burgers and shut the hell up.
This article doesn’t say, and I don’t know, what percentage increase is given to military retirees. If it is any more than the amount given to non-military retirees under Social Security, perhaps a small reduction would be in order. There is no doubt that the military retirement and VA are bloated and extremely costly to taxpayers, but, if retirees were made promises, the government should make good on its promises. Any cuts should be applied to future enlistees. It is unconscionable for a government to make a promise and not keep it unless there is no other option. One option available to the US government is to reduce current military spending.
We need to get over the pretense that the US armed forces are working to protect or defend this country. They are working, certainly at great risk, to protect the financial interests of the industries that control US politics – the oil and weapons industries especially. Apparently, the US government has adopted a mentality that the best defense is a good offense. The rest of the world sees the US as the aggressor in international conflicts, but even the (corporation-controlled) “liberal” US press characterizes US military actions as “Defense.” If the media were honest with the US public, support for the military would wane, which would result in fewer volunteers for military service. While less interference by the US military in international affairs would benefit the average US taxpayer, it would not benefit the powerful corporations, so the deception continues.
Scott,
Just to address your sentence, “We need to get over the pretense that the US armed forces are working to protect or defend this country.” I disagree with you. How the military instrument of power is leveraged does not change what the purpose of the military is for, nor does it dilute the oath consciously taken by the service members. Speaking as an Airman, we all swore to, “support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” Officers additionally swear to, “well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter…” We signed up to support and defend the Constitution (and our leaders, if Enlisted) and by proxy to protect and defend our Nation. I don’t disagree that the military is leveraged to achieve things other than “to protect and defend.” But the purpose of the military remains to defend our Nation and its way of life. Those that comprise the “US armed forces” swore to defend. To claim it is pretense that the men and women of the armed forces support and defend the nation, implies we are all derelict in our duty. I don’t believe that was your intent. Bottom line: the military does support and defend our Nation.
Damn traitors! Commies in China get FULL PAY and Benefits at retirement. We get HALF of our base pay! Yes the Chinese commies treat there people better then we treat our own. Way to go America… They should be ashamed.
Chinese officers below the rank of a senior colonel equivalent to a US brigadier general on average earned 5,373 yuan ($825). Enlisted make much less. You think at 38 years of age you deserve to have the tax payer take care of you for the rest of your life, because your average military skill set prepares you to bag groceries. If you had busted your ass in school you would have gone to college and got a decent paying job. You became institutionalized and expect it all to be handed to you. Told when to eat, what to wear. You have more in common with a comy because you expect to have all your needs taken care of by the govt. Stop whining.
John Doe, listen shipwreck, I did bust it, throughout high school and into college. I have a bachellor’s degree and two masters. After being in the Navy for 26 years I now have a fun job that still challenges me so I continue to bust my butt for the people I work with and for. I don’t expect the government to take care of me for the rest of my life but I sure as heck expect them to adhere to the contract we went into TOGETHER as much as they expected me to adhere to it while I was serving. Again, had I quit at any one of the approved getting off points or failed to uphold my end of the bargain, I’d have been tossed in jail. Instead, they continued to dangle the benefits carrot and I continued to believe the people we were protecting had the same sense of honor we did in serving. Out of curiosity, are you a third or fourth child? If so, using your comparison to the Chineses government, you shouldn’t exist. Have a nice day.
Hey Joe some of us joined in-spite of busting my butt in school. I joined to serve as a patriotic duty as my government teacher put it. I served my time in the grunts and later changed MOS as I discovered that I really enjoyed the military life. Unlike most military and bitter civilians I took advantage of everything offered. Bottom line the waste in the military is in equipment usage and often incompetent officers. Why is it the service member you advocate screwing? How about removing the politics out of the military and allow the real leaders to handle our country’s defense. Right now we have a large group of Dog and Pony show officers and senior enlisted. Let’s start with don’t ask don’t tell and women in combat roles, no grunts but fighter pilots.
Yeah JD we knew what we were signing up for, “guaranteed” free medical for life which they took away and the “guarantee” our retirement would keep up with inflation which they just voted away and that was in writing. Nowhere else could they break a written contract at will. JS Bateman is 100% correct and people who have no clue should butt out.
Active duty aircraft maintainer checking in to say you’re right about the long hours, wrong about the overtime. I wonder if you even did any legwork on this article or just made it up as you went. Never heard of any military member getting paid overtime. Are we being trolled?
Travis, you might want to read the article again. When I said maintainers were getting overtime now, I was being sarcastic to make my point about how hard people like you work. Legwork on the article? Well, some. I served in the USAF for 32 years, Airman Basic to Colonel.
Hey everyone – thanks for your comments on this post. Views on it are approaching 90K with lots of comments. I’m a little overwhelmed trying to approve all the comments so if I miss yours please let me know. I’ll post all viewpoints so any omission is accidental. Let’s argue civilly shall we? No need to call each other names. v/r, JS Bateman
I was surprised so many people jumped on JD and ignored ArmyCPT–who may actually be a fraud. If he actually is an Army CPT, his vulgarity and ignorance of the matter dishonors his Army, and it’s hard to believe he’s an officer–and he’s certainly no “gentlemen.” If he’s all about doing what he did for selfless service, I’m sure he’s already returned all his service compensation back to the Treasury so as not to denigrate his selfless sacrifice. C’mon CPT, get a clue, this is an issue about honoring commitments. Part of the enduring foundation for soldiers to make the unlimited liability commitment to their country is the belief that their country as well as their comrades in arms will honor their commitments to them. That’s why you trust that guy in the foxhole to have your back–that’s why you know if for some reason you fall, somebody is going to do whatever they have to in order to bring you home. Some commitments are un-retractable–and you, young, naive officer need to learn the difference. BTW, when you use that rank on such a post as you did, have the courage to put a name with it. Signed Jeffrey T. Keef, Lt Col, USAF (Ret).
Well Said Col…ArmyCpt… in my opinion is a wanna-be,has been and most likely a never have been who got dumped before he could be…. 🙂 Even POG officers have a deep appreciation for the service that the armed forces provide.
GySgt A. Gomez USMC.Ret
Currently Military retirement is a base part on the total compensation for the job. For this comment I’m going to exclude the feelings and emotional context of why people give up their youth and join organizations that internally creates social economic walls that makes fraternization a crime that is punishable.
I joined the USMC when our country declared it’s part after Iraq invaded Kuwait, I felt it is what I should do. I was constantly given the sales pitch that the wages are low but you get a percentage for life. When I went in it was 50% by the time I got out I believe it was 35%. The erosion of the retirement compensation started then (90’s) or before, is that right? If I made a deal, any type of deal, and didn’t hold up my part I would be wrong morally, ethically & legally.
This articles points out a very important part that I have not heard in the news- “THE ALL VOLUNTEER FORCE”. The government needs to honor the current commitments and not go back 20 years and claim a do over. If they are going to have this conversation they need to put the total compensation package on the table. Base Pay, Danger Pay, Retirement, and Life insurance etc. Dear Government and American People you should be careful what you ask for if you don’t understand or you are not willing to pay the price.
Well Said Col…ArmyCpt… in my opinion is a wanna-be,has been and most likely a never have been who got dumped before he could be…. 🙂 Even POG officers have a deep appreciation for the service that the armed forces provide.
Eric point well made…I joined the USMC right out of high school…and after 21 years service and at the age of 39 I had sore knees, a sever hearing loss; however, while I was chasing bad guys (an foreign women) I managed to attend college. I majored in leadership but I did take a bunch of history classes. Don’t forget how WW I vets were treated by our government and it was lead by one of our most famous generals, MacArthur. Unfortunately, veteran as part of the overall population picture only number about 1% to 3% which means we as a voting block. Translation, we are screwed!
GySgt A. Gomez USMC.Ret
Wat did I just read?
Okay, what is the primary job of the military? To defend the nation, right? When has the intended way of life in the United States ever been in graver danger? Never.
We have utterly failed at our job. The US is less free and less safe than it has ever been in its 238 year history. US citizens are consistently and increasingly surveilled. The US government declares the world a battlefield (that alone speaks to how well we *aren’t doing*) where anyone can be indefinitely detained or murdered without charge or trial, anywhere and anytime. We kill innocent people all over the world almost routinely. When we start a war, it is for extremely ambiguous reasons, if any at all; and results in less stability and greater destruction than intended.
If I were a civilian, I would have a very hard time justifying avoiding these cuts. In the real world, if you suck at your job, you pay the price.
I have no military experience, but I loved your article. Only in America can Congress vote themselves a raise during a recession. Only in America do we treat our senior citizens as ‘throwaways’. Only in America are our heroes treated like they are unworthy citizens. All of this is very sad. We claim we are such a great country…it’s high time we showed it! Yes, cuts need to be made, but why not start at the top with all of the big salaries & benefits that our ‘leaders’ are enjoying instead of starting with those who have worked so hard for the meager benefits they do get?
I think part of the problem with this whole thing is knowledge of the facts so here is what my awesome retirement will be for my 20 years as a E7, which is the average retirement for an AF member in my experience.
Base pay $4371 cut in half is $2185 minus 20% for taxes (depending on where I live) comes to $437 minus around $400 for health care ie tricare depending on the plan I choose come to a total of $1348 a month. Now that isnt exactly chump change but there seem to be those folks out there who are a little misled as to think i am going to be rollin in the dough.
As to the other comment I do have a wife who will not be able to retire due to health problems gained in her 12 yrs. Who may get a disibility but will be unable to work many jobs she is qualified for because of her health leaving me and my retirement and whatever job i can get to suppirt us
I stand by my comment that i would be willing to sacrifice the 1% if I thought it would help, but not to line the pockets of politicians. Just saying and never complaining as I will deal with it as I must.
Even though it must be said the 1% was part of my conract i signed all those years ago.
Have you heard of any unearned entitlements being cut or even mentioned as a possible source of savings? Just cutting out payments to illegal immigrants would save billions.
Having been in Afghanistan and Iraq, there are some true Heros fighting in crazy conditions. That said, for every fighter there are at least twenty low skilled, low trained, Fobbits, who play Xbox, and hang out at the Green Bean coffee shop doing nothing. They are in less danger than people walking the streets in Chicago or Philly. “Thank you for your Service!” They get a lot of off time especially in the states. When you figure the BAH and other benefits, they get a lot of money for some very low skilled work. They get tuition assistance while on active duty, and 69K for the GI bill. The military is the best at pretending to be busy when they truly are not. They buy tons of stuff with tax payer dollars that are never used. There is a 34 million dollar building in Afghanistan that was never used. Billions of dollars in HUMVEES and MRAPS are rusting! They are buying an extra engine for the JSF spending billions that will never be used. Everything the military does is inefficient. The public would be shocked at the amount of money wasted, and programs not needed. It is just about creating low skilled high paying jobs for communities spread out all over the US. The lies the military spreads to beg for unneeded billion dollar platforms is astounding. Cut the military to strategic streamlined missions and plus it up with high skilled thinkers so we can get the overpaid dummies out. Get the hell out of Afghanistan. God bless the infantry!
I agree with so much of this article. My husband is currently active duty and has approximately 6 years left to retirement. He has been deployed countless times and none of them have gone as scheduled, you know a 6 month turned into 9 month, just back from a long deployment and then told you have 2 weeks and you are going out again…..Meanwhile, We have moved 5 times in 5 years (most of them with out him) and I am a skilled professional in the medical field and do you know how hard it is to get a job much less get one that pays well. I have over 15 years experience in my field and most of the crappy places we are ORDERED to live don’t pay worth anything, much less hire military spouses. Do you know how many times during an interview I have been asked (illegally) ‘How long are you here for?” I am now a stay at home mom because my job would not pay for daycare much less anything else. After all of this, Congress (and most of the DoD) sit on their collective butts and just take, and take, and take……..soon there will be nothing left for service members and their families.
This was a good read until all of the fucking moronic Soldiers, Marines, Sailors and Airmen turned on each other by insulting each other. Who fucking cares what your MOS is or what specialty you hold! Everyone has a job that supports the other. Let me tell you something 11B’s and anyone else with such a small, ignorant fucking mind that can’t seem to comprehend much of anything. You are right, you do work long hours (when you are training) and that’s not all the time. I am with an Infantry Airborne unit, and I see them (grunts) as you say, walking around in civilian clothes all the damn time. NOW get me straight, there are a LOT or excellent Grunts, including my father that never took his support for granted. Your support personnel help make sure you get paid, promoted, family taken care of if you die, legal advice when you marry the first stripper you meet (this is nothing against women, infantry dudes really like to marry strippers), supply you with the gear you need to do your job in the first place. All I’m saying is fucking step back and look at yourselves. This column was about how “we” as service men and women are being screwed by our own government and instead of talking and taking aggression out towards them, you turn on each other. This is where they get ideas that military members are uneducated, or don’t really have anything else to contribute. This is where they get the ideas we are over paid fucking idiots! You guys (no matter who you are) fucking fight each other and lose sight over the very real issues we are facing. You guys are what makes me sick and slightly embarrassed to be in the Service. The politicians are a major part of the problem in America today, but we are never going to accomplish anything with the majority of your mindsets. Talk shit all you want, because you are the problem!
I think people need to read there is sarcasm in the original article and that the comparisons are to show how screwed over the military is on a regular basis versus civilian counterparts.
I’ll admit that I didn’t read them all but I needed to say something about those who obviously didn’t READ the article.
I think this is a great article and think that non-military don’t get all the crap we sacrifice. Yes, it is selfless to give your time, effort and devotion (my family knows they are second in my life, even with my best efforts to the contrary) but for the government who tells us what to do to not grasp how the decisions they make impact us Active Duty and Retired, is frustrating.
Listen up kids. I am becoming exceedingly more disheartened and irritated by all the off topic branch bashing. The Colonel (RET) here, highlighted a LOT of poignant POLITICAL concerns. They apply to ALL of us whether you are sleeping in your kevlar at a FOB someplace just outside of Hell or prepping chow. Whether you are digging sand caked in sweat out of your crack or sitting in an air conditioned server room guaranteeing comm connectivity. Whether you are turning wrenches on one of our amazing technological pieces of machinery or operating them. It takes all of these jobs to make the war machine churn.
I believe the call to action here poses a few initial requirements starting with.. ending the dick swinging contest. You all need to let go of these massive reproductive organs, roll em up, and duct tape them to your thigh to keep them out of the way. We have enough civilian (AND CONGRESS) opposition on the matters at hand than to be clawing at each other’s throats about how much harder or more dangerous our job is than somebody else’s. The running quote “we all know what we signed up for” is valid from every angle. Yes, we all signed up to do the job that the war machine decided best suited our abilities, and as we “signed up” we read a contract that detailed exactly what we were getting in return for our commitment. If you didn’t like the fact that a computer programmer or a cook gets the same bennies as you being a trained killer… perhaps you should consider checking the want-ads to see if somebody is hiring a mercenary.. then you can go do all your killing all by yourself and be that 1-man team you have always dreamed of. FOR NOW, though, that is not the case. This issue is about contracts… and the government breaching them. The size of your rod, the level of your danger, the extent of your patriotism are NOT the variables in the matter, so save them for impressing possible sexual conquests in the bar.
There are a couple mouthy and somewhat lewd officers that I feel have mistaken this PUBLIC FORUM for the back corner of the O-Club. With all due respect, If this is the way you conduct yourself, I wouldn’t follow you into a friggin all-you-can-eat pizza buffet (and I REALLY LOVE pizza!). Get your minds right. You wouldn’t mouth off at each other like that in a professional environment, especially in front of your enlisted troops… and you sure as shit don’t need to be doing it for all of the globe to see. We owe it to the American people to be a professional team of war-fighters. Not a bunch of sniveling little middle school kids. Exactly HOW confident do you expect people to be in us to perform our functions in the defense of freedom, if THIS is the example of conduct that they see?
I have one thing to say to all the civilians that have chimed in [negatively] on this matter… well.. a couple things about the same topic. BE VERY CAREFUL, who you blame and hold accountable for things that leave you with distaste. We, as a military entity, are subject to the orders and delegations of those appointed over us. We do not have choices in when and where to go to war. We are here to do this country’s bidding by whatever means the Commander in Chief dictates… and YOU.. vote for that person. The Commander in Chief is advised and supported by congress.. and YOU… vote for those people. We, as a military, ultimately do, what YOU.. tell us to do. If you don’t like our involvement in a conflict overseas, do NOT pass judgement on the men and women just doing what we were told to do by the people that YOU appointed over us. You see, part of what WE signed up to do, means that we don’t get to contest our mission. Doing so, would result in varying levels of very undesirable punishment. We are members of an institution that is controlled by the very people that we protect. We work for YOU. Most of you are more likely to know or live close to, or having a personal relationship with a member of the US Armed Forces… and somehow you feel like they are the easier target because you associate with them. Do not be daft. Understand the position and roles of the way federal government works. YOU need to hold congress accountable for the douchebaggery that they are enacting right now, and until they STOP. I hold YOU, each and every one of you voters accountable… for the hardships my brothers and sisters face both at home and abroad, both active and retired, and for your own dissatisfaction in the way your tax dollars are spent. Decide whats REALLY important to you, do your homework on your candidates and VOTE!! If you ARE happy with how this is all playing out, I invite you to dismiss yourself to enjoy your freedom and a malty beverage while the ones of us actually affected by this have a discussion.
So finally, whether you are Army Strong, Aiming high, a Global Force For Good, a Few & Proud, or Always Prepared, I IMPLORE you all to realize that no one function of this glorious institution can operate to its full potential without all of the others. No one BRANCH can perform its function to it’s full potential without all of the others. I believe that we are all even in agreement that no matter what level of asshattery congress dishes out, we are still going to get the J-O-B.. DONE. The bottom line RIGHT here and NOW, is that we need to quit smacking each other around before we have missed our opportunity and we lose the pension and the medical benefits that some of us need more than others, because I assure you.. when congress makes a decision, it will affect us all equally. Nobody is going to get an exemption card just because they “work harder”. I’d sure hate for us to wake up one day and realize that while we were acting like children, our brother with no legs, or our sister with PTSD (this list is to extensive to complete) is no longer supported by the government that they served to receive these hardships.
I leave you all with a quote (ironically made popular by our government).
“United we stand, Divided we fall”
Now WHO will YOU unite with?
TSgt Angry, USAF -OUT-
Why is it that people that give comments get off the real meaning of the subject before 10 comments are made. All brothers in arms should stand up for each other. It’s not about who may get an hrs sleep more than the otherbut who will you trust when the real dangers come into play. Some of you are actually sounding like Politicans with that i am better than you.
My name is Charles Dickson and yes i was in the Air Force and did 2 tours in Vietnam (67-69) I fought next to army grunts, being on the Quick Reaction Force and seen Army and Airforce bodies. God blessed me that i wasn’t one of them. Sure i got a few more hrs of sleep sometimes than other military people in the field but went through 52 mortor and rocket attacks while i was there so i can tell you what being scared is all about. Yes civilian tech reps were paid 10 grand a month for their duties in a war zone. I made $365 a month. that was was with hazardous duty and overseas pay included.
If people get confused and start comparing about which service is the greatest just look at the Vietnam War Memorial and you will see names vrom every branch of the military but not the Politicans name anywhere. Thats all i got to say!
Enough with the inter-service sniping. Boring and counter-productive posturing from the young and inexperienced. I’m not approving any more or those posts.
Jeff – good article! Well said!!
I believe the best joke I ever herad wasn’t even a joke as we kow one.But as a retired Fir Force member to hear somone say that we are over compensatedmakes me laugh. these so called educated people have no idea what life in the military is like just because were supposebly over compensated I submit to you that every day you put on your uniform your telling your country today while serving you I died doing that, please do not forget me. And please forgive while I was defending the greatest country in the world so that yo may continue to say in your missguided way that we are over compensated. It at one time was considered an honor to serve your country would not recommend to any young person to serve an ungreatful country, as ours.